Call Us: 423 661-4734 | Email: requests@comeandreason.com      
Six Steps to Dialogue with Those Who Disagree with the Healing Model

Six Steps to Dialogue with Those Who Disagree with the Healing Model

Recently, a kind Seventh-day Adventist gentleman, whom I have known for many years and who disagrees with our Healing Model of salvation, began an email conversation with me. Our exchange has produced some useful dialogue, which I believe will be helpful to share.

He expressed concern that the Healing Model presents only the subjective views of the atonement, while the Legal Model presents both objective and subjective views. Then he gave examples of subjective and objective:

  • God in Christ reconciling a world of enemies to Himself is objective. Every sinner reconciling himself to God is subjective.
  • Joshua the High Priest as a brand plucked from the fire is subjective. The world of sinners as a brand plucked from the fire is objective.
  • A divine forgiveness for all sin is objective. A sinner personally experiencing that forgiveness is subjective.

My response: Regarding the objective and subjective aspects of the atonement, the Healing Model teaches that both subjective and objective elements are required for a sinner to be saved.

We define “objective” to be what God has done, irrespective of human response, for the salvation of humankind; and subjective to be our response to what God has done.

Regardless of any individual human response (subjective), the species human was saved (objective) in the person of Jesus Christ, who became fully human and lived sinlessly. Because Jesus was fully human, incarnate as part of the humanity descended from Adam, and His sinless personhood was tempted in every way like we are, but was without sin (Hebrews 4:15), He put the species right with God. Jesus restored the species, in His humanity, to righteousness, freeing it from sin. All other human beings are saved based on their faith in Him, not by their works. Our faith does not save us; our faith is the means whereby we partake of what Christ has objectively achieved for us.

The gentleman followed up with several other questions:

  • Does the Healing Model teach that Christ did not die the second death on the cross?
  • Does the Healing Model teach that the initial act of sin is not the thing that needed fixing?
  • Does the Healing Model teach that Christ on the cross did not bear the world’s sins (everyone’s individual acts throughout all human history)?
  • The Healing Model emphasizes man’s sinfulness, or condition of sin. Is this equivalent to our carnal, sinful, fallen nature?

What follows below is my strategy for dealing with those who struggle with understanding the Healing Model, interlaced with my specific response to the gentleman. I share it with you as steps you can take when you face similar discussions.


Step 1: Define the landscape of the conversation. The overarching landscape that sets the stage is how one understands God’s law. This must be decided before the specific questions can be answered.

My response: These are all excellent questions, and I have detailed answers for them. But they are subordinate questions, and the answers to them become self-evident once the primary questions are answered. If we don’t first answer the primary questions accurately, then these secondary questions all end up with misleading or incomplete answers.

What are the primary questions?

What is the problem that sin caused that the plan of salvation is designed to fix? In other words, we need to rightly understand the problem before we can correctly understand the solution. The atonement is the heart of the solution—but what is the problem? Sin? Okay, absolutely—but what is sin? Transgression of the law? Okay, absolutely—but what law? God’s law? Of course, absolutely true, but how does God’s law function—what kind of law is it? This is the heart of the origin of sin in heaven; altering the view of God’s law is how sin began in heaven, and it will end over the same issue.


Step 2: Give references recognized as valid by the party with whom you are dialoguing. The following are quotations from E.G. White, one of the founders of the Adventist Church and one whom many believe had special, Spirit-led insight into the plan of salvation. These references are useful in making the case regarding how law is understood especially when dialoguing with Adventists.

The last great conflict between truth and error is but the final struggle of the long-standing controversy concerning the law of God. Upon this battle we are now entering,—a battle between the laws of men and the precepts of Jehovah, between the religion of the Bible and the religion of fable and tradition (The Great Controversy, 582).

There is no such thing as weakening or strengthening the law of Jehovah. As it has been, so it is. It always has been, and always will be holy, just, and good, complete in itself. It cannot be repealed or changed. To “honor” or “dishonor” it is but the speech of men.

Between the laws of men and the precepts of Jehovah will come the last great conflict of the controversy between truth and error. Upon this battle we are now entering—a battle not between rival churches contending for the supremacy, but between the religion of the Bible and the religions of fable and tradition (Prophets and Kings, 625).

But in heaven, service is not rendered in the spirit of legality. When Satan rebelled against the law of Jehovah, the thought that there was a law came to the angels almost as an awakening to something unthought of (Thoughts from the Mount of Blessing, 109).

My response in addition to the quotations: What kind of law cannot be weakened or strengthened, has always been, and will always be, and is in force but unthought of? None other than the design laws upon which reality is built to exist!

Imposed rules, which humans make, which require external enforcement, must be posted; humans and angels must be informed or instructed about made-up laws in order to hold them accountable. But not so with design law.

Consider when Isaac Newton told his friends that he had discovered the law of gravity; can’t you hear them saying, “A law? Really? Wow, I never thought there was a law about gravity; it’s just how things work.”

But in heaven, Satan introduced a lie about the concept of law. He introduced the idea that the law is not design protocols for life and health and happiness, but merely a system of rules that if broken will require God to inflict punishment:

In the opening of the great controversy, Satan had declared that the law of God could not be obeyed, that justice was inconsistent with mercy, and that, should the law be broken, it would be impossible for the sinner to be pardoned. Every sin must meet its punishment, urged Satan; and if God should remit the punishment of sin, He would not be a God of truth and justice. (The Desire of Ages, 761).


Step 3: Bring the discussion to a decision point that demarcates the landscape for future dialogue and conclusions. If we cannot agree that God’s law is design law, then the subordinate questions will all be misunderstood. No matter what explanation I give, they will be rejected because they won’t make sense if the imposed law view is assumed to be true.


Step 4: You can leave it there and allow time for the primary questions to be considered and answered. In an in-person conversation, I would likely do that, but in an email exchange with someone who will think things through carefully, then you can make some further applications of the design-law understanding to the questions asked.

For instance, in my response, I asked: What is the problem that sin caused that the plan of salvation is designed to fix? Let me ask it again another way: When Adam and Eve sinned, did God get changed? Of course not! Did God’s law get changed? Of course not! Did the actual condition of Adam and Eve change? Yes—they became sinners; they were not still sinless, holy beings with love and trust operating in their hearts but who were now in legal trouble with God. The image of God within them was damaged, love was displaced, and fear and selfishness now ruled in their hearts.

So, if the change that sin caused was not in God, does the atonement (solution) need to do something to God? Does the atonement need to do something to God’s law? Or does the atonement need to have its power, action, impact within humanity? This is why Jesus had to become human—because it was in humanity that Jesus had to do His saving work; He did that work as a human.

Design law informs us that God’s law is the basis of life. Sin transgresses that law and takes one out of harmony with God and life; without the atonement, the result of sin is ruin and death:

“The wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23 NIV84).

“Sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death” (James 1:15 NIV84).

“The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction” (Galatians 6:8 NIV84).

God acted through Christ to save sinners by eradicating sin from human beings and restoring human beings to at-one-ment with Him. How? By upholding, sustaining, restoring, and living out His law in the humanity of Jesus; by doing this, the law of life (love) destroyed the law of sin and death—the cause of death. As Scripture says:

“Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil” (Hebrews 2:14 NIV84).

“But it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel” (2 Timothy 1:10 NIV84).

So, Christ destroyed death and brought life and immortality to light—this is by restoring God’s living law into the humanity He assumed by the action of His human self. Incredible!

We, by faith, receive that gift, that victory within us that heals and transforms us:

“I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me” (Galatians 2:20 NIV84)

“We have the mind of Christ” (1 Corinthians 2:16 NIV84)

“This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts” (Hebrews 8:10 NIV84).

“You may become partakers of the divine nature” (2 Peter 1:4 NET).


Step 5: Challenge them to apply the design-law perspective to their questions.

My response: Consider your questions through design law and see if the answers don’t become self-evident. I will give an insight on the second death question: Don’t assume the meaning of the term. Go to Scripture and let the inspired record define what the second death is. If you do that, and apply the description rather than the term “second death,” do you believe that Christ died the second death? If you would like to see my answer, you can read my blog at Did Christ Die the Second Death?


Step 6: Give them a problem that causes cognitive dissonance. Say something that doesn’t fit their paradigm and that they will have a hard time ignoring (using an authority the other person values will make it more difficult for them to ignore the question).

My response: You asked, “Does the Healing Model teach that the initial act of sin is not the thing that needed fixing?”

This question is confusing to me. The initial sin was not an act so much as a change in attitude when Lucifer stopped being loving and became filled with pride, changing from loyal love to selfishness that led to acts of rebellion; the sin was not the acts themselves but the selfishness that grew in his heart. The focus on acts suggests to me that sin is being viewed through the human-law model. Further confusion for me about your question comes from awareness of E.G. White’s statement in The Great Controversy about the initial sin of Lucifer:

God in His great mercy bore long with Lucifer. He was not immediately degraded from his exalted station when he first indulged the spirit of discontent, nor even when he began to present his false claims before the loyal angels. Long was he retained in heaven. Again and again he was offered pardon on condition of repentance and submission … if he had been willing to return to God, acknowledging the Creator’s wisdom, and satisfied to fill the place appointed him in God’s great plan, he would have been reinstated in his office (495).

Notice, Lucifer is bearing false witness in heaven, yet he is offered pardon on the condition of repentance and submission without any legal payment—no sin bearer, no death penalty—and he would have been reinstated if he would have repented. The design-law understanding brings harmony to all these statements, but the legal model contradicts these statements insisting a death penalty must be inflicted upon a “sin-bearer” in order for pardon to be extended.


So, when in dialogue with interested parties who struggle to correctly understand the Healing Model, consider using these steps in presenting the truth to them. Be sure to present this truth in love and in patience, giving them room to grow and adapt to ever-unfolding truth, just as we all are doing every day!

 
Email me the blog whenever a new one is published.

Donate online, securely via PayPal using your credit or debit card (no PayPal account needed, unless you want to set up a monthly, recurring payment).


cancel recurring payment

 

Want to use zelle instead?
See how on our
Support and Donations page.

Upcoming Events

calendar

Testimonial Post Slider

Testimony 39

[This ministry is the] biggest blessing I have ever received! Your DVDs and lessons could not have come at a better time in my life. I have experienced in the past year many difficulties that, if it wasn’t for this wonderful view of God that I have discovered through this ministry, I would not have been able to respond in love and forgiveness. My heart is being transformed everyday by the Calvary-looking God you teach. Hallelujah!! I have tears in my eyes as I write, because my life has taken a complete turn from where I was heading.

I am from Central America. Most of my family is scattered in different parts of the world and all have the same view of God that I had growing up; a distant, exacting, and ready-to-punish-us-with-tragedy type of God. So, I have been translating lessons for my family and, to my surprise, they have also been sharing them with others! I can already see the difference. My brother has often said, “Thank you for sharing, I have never heard it this way!” My other family members are taking an amazing turn from a message of “repent or burn” towards a loving God, pleading to us that we won’t reject him because he loves us eternally.

Bless you for all you do.

Sofia S., Ashfield, MA, USA

 

Testimony 7

Ok, so last night I listened to “The Law of Liberty” and “How to Achieve Victory: Freedom, Truth and Spirtual Warfare.” These are both MY ABSOLUTE FAVORITES so far! The logic is just soooooo beautiful. I had to re-listen to them a couple of times. I just want to EXPLODE! (<< we assume with joy and happiness)

N. B., Canada

 

Testimony 53

I was so blessed by a friend who gave me your book, “The God Shaped Brain,” while I was sitting in church asking God to please help me learn more about Him and help me not to be so confused and scared. That was about 2 years ago. Your books have helped me to love God even more. I’m not confused or scared anymore! I have listened to all of your bible study classes and feel like I know the wonderful people that attend every week. Thank you for all that you’re doing in spreading the true message about God and His law of love. God bless you and your whole class.

Elssy P., Modesto, CA, USA

 

Testimony 69

After reading your book, ‘Could It Be This Simple,’ someone was explaining Christianity in a way that made sense to me for the first time in my life. One morning, I simply prayed “I’m sorry and I love you.” As soon as I silently said that, I could literally feel God’s presence and light flood down on me from above and fill me up with love and joy. I sat there crying my eyes out, because I was so overpowered with this feeling of love and joy. It was just so incredible. I hope that more people can read this book and get a blessing from it. It’s really amazing.

Rachael H.

Testimony 19

I truly believe that to know who God really is the first step to understand ourselves in a balanced and kind way, so the healing can take place. Your approach really makes sense – Thank you for your ministry!

A.M., Pittsburg, PA, USA

Testimony 36

Thank you and may God continue to bless you as you share with others the intricacies of how we are all “fearfully and wonderfully made”. I must share that you have opened a whole new world to me, and I have found tremendous healing through what you have shared in two of your books, “Could It Be This Simple?” and “The God Shaped Brain.” I praise God for what you shared, what I have learned, and how I have grown and healed! My prayer is that My Precious Jesus will be seen by others in the way I live, act, talk, etc. and they may be encouraged to know He is truly a GREAT God of LOVE, desiring that no one should perish! God Bless you in your continued endeavors to present Him as He really is!

Joleen H. GA, USA

 

Testimony 34

I was introduced to Come and Reason Ministries by accident, via a passing comment made in a bible study class we were visiting. I checked this website out and my life was changed. The understanding of the truth of God’s character, and how we apply it, is so right. The tricky part is consistently applying which “lens” to look through. As I began to understand, I started sharing the basics of this understanding with a discussion group I was leading and, suddenly, a lot of things started to make sense that never used to. At the same time, I enjoyed an amazing opportunity. I was able to conduct a full bible study at WORK! What an amazing experience! It is such a joy to share the truth about God and to share how it all fits in the war between God and Satan. So many people benefit when we have a correct understanding about how God works and who He really is! Thank you for this transformational understanding. Keep up the good work! God Bless you!

Tony P., CA, USA

 

Testimony 61

I grew up in a prominent protestant church and had what I like to call religious anxiety. I’ve always had questions about God and Salvation that no one could seem to answer.  I didn’t know how to find resolution. During 2020, at the height of my anxiety, I fell to my knees and begged God to show me truth and light and to give me the hope that I’ve been longing for. Days later, I stumbled upon your online videos and it was like a veil was lifted and EVERYTHING made sense! For the first time in my almost 39 years of life, my religious/spiritual anxiety has lessened. I feel a sense of freedom and peace I’ve NEVER had before… and it’s all because my view of God has changed. Thank you!

Ashleighn C.

 

Testimony 46

Over the past couple of years God has been expanding my view of Himself and His character. Along my approximately 40-year journey, I have often had questions, but was hesitant to voice these and step outside the traditionally accepted thinking, for fear of admitting that I may in fact be eternally lost. In the recesses of my thinking has been the thought – if one blindly accepts (which is widely regarded as “real faith”) and does not question, is this really ‘truth?’ I often find it challenging to grapple with very theological ‘speak,’ but Dr. Jennings has a real gift of explaining spiritual concepts with clear practical examples. The weekly discussions are growing my Christian experience and slowly changing my view of how to live as a child of God in today’s complex world. Finally the whole Old Testament sanctuary teaching moved in my mind from fantasy to reality!

Beverly S., South Africa

 

Testimony 25

I just want to say thank you so much for your conversations via YouTube. I regularly tune in to your lectures, “Let’s Talk” sessions, and many others. Through these I’ve found greater depth and meaning to God’s word. Thanks for all that you do and please continue. I’m currently working in the middle of Silicon Valley at Stanford University. I feel like God really has me in the right place right now and I’m sensing that your teachings might be part of it.

B. F., Silicon Valley, CA, USA

 

Testimony 23

I would just like to add my voice to the many people who, I believe, must have contacted you to express their appreciation for the “Healing the Mind” DVDs. I’ve been listening to your Bible study class discussions for many years and I’ve been personally blessed by your research and teaching about the character of God.

L. G., Oakland, MI, USA

 

Testimony 57

You have helped make sense of thirty two years of confusion. The material you freely provide reorganized so much of my life into such a beautiful pattern that has always been hinted at from within, but misguided with my training and what I was experiencing externally. My filipno parents, who were converted from Catholicism to SDA, were sincere and did their best to raise me the right way and I have deep respect for them. However, being immigrants and not understanding the language made for a difficult transition as I was growing up, which also applied to my spiritual growth as I learned the patterns of religion. I have been listening to as many bible study classes and reading blog posts as my time in a work truck will allow, searching for the practical applications of where spirituality and reality meet, and I thank you for helping me find that. You have helped me reach a point in which I can truly say that I love God, that I believe He loves me, and, like David, I delight in His law. God bless.

Emmanuel V., Calgary, AB Canada

Testimony 2

I continue to enjoy your lessons every week. The more that I research your conclusions, the more I am convinced that the Holy Spirit has lead you to distill out the essence of human redemption. Thank you for your courageous stand for the truth.

S. G., TX, USA

 

Testimony 49

I came into the church at 21, but that is as far as it went. I was so confused about what love is. I couldn’t find it in the bible, because I am not a person that can read between the lines. I have no logic. I have read many, many books; trying to figure out the crux of the matter. They were helpful, but something was still missing. I have become very frustrated to the point of crying out to God, “Where can I go?”  I needed some basics.

I found two books, written by Timothy Jennings, MD, to be very helpful. God showed me that I had lived my whole life in fear. I didn’t even see it. Now, I do. God is so good.  I discovered the “The Remedy”  Dr. Jennings new book, “The God-Shaped Heart!” Oh, I was so excited, I purchased them right away.

I can get rid of most of my books, because “The Remedy” brings the Love of God out so clearly, even I can’t miss it. Now, I want to sit and read my Bible. Wow, what a revelation! It is just simply Awesome! I am so grateful to Jehovah Almighty for hearing my prayer for more understanding! I am so encouraged!

Jackie S.

 

Testimony 62

I would like to express my thanks to the C&R team for creating a platform from which people can learn to trust in God and grow. My life is a witness to the effectiveness of this ministry. Without believing the truth about God as you have shown, I don’t know what my life would be like. I had given up on God helping me with certain sins – it was all useless. Given that the scripture is clear and God is so good, how could I have betrayed him so many times? I was a yo-yo christian; spinning up and down. My faith and enthusiasm was driven by discoveries/threats that prophecy is about to be fulfilled. But when I watched your “Healing the Mind” seminar, it was like a light finally went on. I could see God had no plan to hurt me, the danger came from sin, and that He is working to protect me and strengthen me. Thank you for allowing God to use you. The message God gave C&R saved my life!

Antony N. – Hobart, Australia