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Questions About Christ’s Death – Part 2

Questions About Christ’s Death – Part 2

I received the following in response to Part I along with many quotes from another Christian writer. I’m limiting the cited quotations to one due to space.

In regard to the issue of Christ dying for my sinfulness or for sins, I believe He died for both. We need redemption from what we are and from what we do. The Greek word for sin in the NT, according to Strong’s (266 amartia hamartia) has several meanings, one of which is “collectively, the complex or aggregate of sins committed either by a single person or by many”. And what is the full penalty of sin?

Christ in His wisdom gave to His church in its infancy a system of sacrifices and offerings, of which He Himself was the foundation, and by which His death was prefigured. Every sacrifice pointed to Him as the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, that all might understand that the wages of sin is death. In Him was no sin, yet He died for our sins.  1Selected Messages pg 114

You said, “We need redemption from what we are and from what we do,” but I ask, do you think these are somehow disconnected or different?  Or is it like Jesus said, “from the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks,” in other words, what we do is merely a reflection of the condition of our heart?

I think much misunderstanding occurs because people often separate what we do from who we are rather than seeing the connection Christ taught that what we do is the outgrowth, the symptom, the inevitability of what we are. Thus, healing the defect in character, healing the heart and mind, restoring us back into God’s original ideal resolves all the things we do.

One of the things I have learned along the way is that as we study the Bible, we must go beyond what an inspired passage says to understand what it means. You cited multiple passages in which the words, “died for our sins” or “suffered for our sins” were used. The question is not whether this language is used, but what does this language mean!

Does it mean individual acts of sin perpetrated by every individual sinner or does the language used convey the idea of our sinfulness, using the word “sins” to ensure that readers connect themselves to the equation? 

Some theologians take the former position and teach things like, “every sin (actual act) ever committed in the past, present, or future was place upon Christ on the cross and He suffered the penalty for every act of sin.”  Let’s consider the idea that every act of sin was put on Christ and He suffered for every individual act of sin.

First, is sin a commodity? Can it be transferred from person to person?

If every act of sin ever committed or yet to be committed by every saved and lost person the world would ever see was put on Christ and punished in Him and He paid “the full penalty” for all of these acts, then why do the unrepentant wicked have to suffer the “penalty” of sin since their penalty was already “paid in full” by Christ? But then we say God forgives us our sins, because Jesus prayed “forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors.” Well, which is it?  Does God forgive or does Jesus pay?

Let’s look at it this way.  If you owed a debt, could the person you owed the debt to both collect the debt and forgive the debt at the same time? Conversely, if you forgave someone a debt they owed you, could you also collect it? 

If the above theory is true, then could we say that Hitler and Stalin, who together killed 100 million people, thus shortening their lives and preventing trillions of acts of sin from ever being committed, reduced Christ’s suffering on the cross because all those sins never happened? Could we say those who perform abortions reduce Christ’s suffering on the Cross, because by preventing people from being born they are preventing billions of sins from being committed? In other words, would Christ have suffered more if no abortions were performed, because more sins would have been committed that would have needed to be placed on Him at the Cross? 

These scenarios are illogical.  Christ took upon Himself our terminal condition of sinfulness and at the Cross He experienced a weight of emotional anguish (including guilt) beyond which any human will ever suffer. But why? (and this will answer your question as to what the full penalty of sin is). Christ was made to be sin though He knew no sin and in so doing suffered the full penalty of sin, which is separation from God! And why was this so much more devastating and more severe than anyone else will ever suffer? Because Christ was closer to God than anyone else could ever be.

If you were told today you will never be able to be with Osama Bin Laden again, how emotionally distressed would you be? However, if you were told you would never be able to be with your wife again, how emotionally distressed would that make you? It is not distressful to be separated from someone you don’t like, but it is devastating to be separated from someone who is part of you (the two shall become one). God is One! Their unity was broken up.  This is the anguish which is beyond our understanding. Why? Because our condition was upon Him, He was tempted in everyway just like we are, tempted to use His power to save Himself, but He chose to give His life in love instead!  And in doing so He defeated death rather than “paid” the wages of sin – eternal death!

It seems there is another area of misunderstanding I need to clear up as well. I have never said that sin does not carry a penalty.  Sin does carry a penalty. This has been my position all along. So you are quite correct to press forward the idea that sin carries a penalty. What I do say is that the penalty is not an external, God-imposed legal sentence, but an inherent consequence (“penalty “) that comes from sin itself. “The wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23).  “Sin when full grown brings forth death” (James 1:15).  This penalty is the destruction of one’s character, which ultimately results in total and eternal separation from God by our own unfitness and unwillingness to be one with Him in His presence. 

I think the area in which we often get stuck is a misunderstanding of God’s law. Many seem to use a “legal model” of lawyers, advocates, and law-makers with the idea of imposed or created law requiring a sovereign to “impose” penalties to “enforce” the law. This idea has been long standing in religious thought, but it is fundamentally flawed. God’s law is not created or imposed.  It is natural and is the Law of Love, emanating from God’s very personhood.

Think of God’s law like “the laws of health.”  If someone violates the laws of health does anyone have to “impose” penalties on them such as illness, pain, suffering, and/or death? For example, take a person who smokes.  Does anyone (including God) have to impose the penalty of cancer or emphysema? In order to be healed by a doctor, can this person continue to smoke and violate the laws of health or must they come into harmony with the laws of health by ceasing to smoke? 

Likewise, God could not cure the sin problem by violating His Law of Love. He could only cure the sin problem by bringing humanity back into perfect accord with the Law of Love. This is what Christ came to do, perfectly meeting and fulfilling the “demands” of the law, which is none other than perfect, self-sacrificing Love. Violators, on the other hand, who refuse to be healed of their selfishness do not need God to impose an external penalty and instead reap the natural consequences of their choice to be and act selfishly – eternal death.  Why? Because life is designed to operate upon the Law of Love and disharmony with the Law of Love is incompatible with life. On a physical level we could say that life is designed to operate upon the law of respiration and tying a plastic bag over one’s head (violating the law of respiration) results in death, why? Because violation of the law is incompatible with life.

Thanks for such excellent and thoughtful questions. It is only by thinking, studying, reasoning, and following the truth that the lies of satan can be cleansed from our minds.

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I have been really blessed reading your response to the various questions on your site.

K.C., OH, USA

 

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I grew up in a prominent protestant church and had what I like to call religious anxiety. I’ve always had questions about God and Salvation that no one could seem to answer.  I didn’t know how to find resolution. During 2020, at the height of my anxiety, I fell to my knees and begged God to show me truth and light and to give me the hope that I’ve been longing for. Days later, I stumbled upon your online videos and it was like a veil was lifted and EVERYTHING made sense! For the first time in my almost 39 years of life, my religious/spiritual anxiety has lessened. I feel a sense of freedom and peace I’ve NEVER had before… and it’s all because my view of God has changed. Thank you!

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I was so blessed by a friend who gave me your book, “The God Shaped Brain,” while I was sitting in church asking God to please help me learn more about Him and help me not to be so confused and scared. That was about 2 years ago. Your books have helped me to love God even more. I’m not confused or scared anymore! I have listened to all of your bible study classes and feel like I know the wonderful people that attend every week. Thank you for all that you’re doing in spreading the true message about God and His law of love. God bless you and your whole class.

Elssy P., Modesto, CA, USA

 

Testimony 30

God lead me to your book “The God-Shaped Brain” while I was searching for another book about the brain and then to your interview about your book on HeartWise Ministries [where] I found out about [Come And Reason Ministries]. I’m now devouring the webcasts of your Bible studies. I have been so greatly blessed and I thank God so much for your courage to speak the Truth in love no matter what. Listening to you contrast the two opposing systems (laws) and digging deep to unearth the hidden treasures in the Bible makes me so incredibly happy and I feel very blessed to be part of your Bible Study Group although I live far away. I am just so excited that there is a group of people that is spreading the Truth about the character of God and it saddens me how few realize what our Father in Heaven is really like.

Kessy B., Australia

 

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I have been confused for years about what [christianity] calls [its] most disgusting teaching. It has never made much sense to me and for that reason has been evermore empty. I have listened to your class off and on and have struggled determining what is truth, because of the resistance design law encounters in the church. So, I thank God for your ministry. What you teach makes sense. It’s logical and backed up by the power of love. I have never seen that in Christ until now. I am astounded by the insight that is found when we look at God’s ministry through design law. All strength to this message, as I believe it to be the power of God.

Brendon S.

 

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Thank you for the ministry you are sharing with us, it is a real blessing to us and especially to my husband and myself! You are encouraging us to think for ourselves and not just to except everything, without thinking it through, with God’s word!

M.K., USA

 

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We really appreciate your views on the judgment and they make good sense considering our free choice.

Anonymous

 

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I have been blessed by your ministry. I have experienced personally, and deeply resonate with, the God of love and the beautiful picture of God’s character that you present. I have seen your seminar series on YouTube, read ‘The Journal of the Watcher’ book, used your mobile app, and also listen/study the bible study lesson with you each week. I concur with many of the thoughts and perspectives that you share. I understand your conclusions on natural laws vs imposed law and the legal/penal substitution (incorrect diagnosis). This makes perfect sense to me.

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Melissa L.

 

Testimony 59

I’m a native Ghanan, but am currently in France for my master’s degree. Prior to this, during my final years at undergraduate studies in Ghana, I was introduced to your ministry and I’ve been immensely blessed by what you share, especially about the Design and Imposed Laws. God richly bless you for that.

One of the first things I did when I arrived in France was to buy all four of your books. They not only helped me, but those I shared them with. I shared the message with an atheist student and I marveled at how God worked mightily in his life. Today this person shares the Love of God with others and debunks theories of who God is not. I want to share what you present in your “Heavenly Sanctuary and Investigative Judgment” pamphlet, because the message brought rest to my soul and I live today as a healthy person.

God bless you so much and your ministry.

Michael A., Ghana

 

Testimony 65

I have been tuning into your weekly study classes for a while now and wanted express my appreciation for the teachings that ha been a huge blessing in opening up the true message of the word. Viewing scripture under an imposed law theory always, without fail, raised more questions, concerns, and conflicting scripture interpretations that were discouraging at the very least. Looking at scripture through the design law lens has brought more truth to light for me personally and an understanding of our Heavenly Father that places Him “above all others,” where I am now more than thrilled to witness and serve Him.  I “stumbled” across this ministry a year or so ago and would only watch a few minutes at a time. But the more I listened and the longer I paid attention, the more my spiritual eyes were opened to the ever present truths of scripture. The comprehension of the great controversy and it’s origin by the lies perpetrated and perpetuated throughout the Bible on the attack of God’s character and government is truly priceless. Keep up the Good Work! Your servanthood is desperately needed in such a time as this!

Jeff D., Reading, MA, USA

 

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I would love to have a copy of “Healing the Mind” DVDs to have in my therapy office. I enjoy having clients check out materials to enhance their therapy experience. I have sat under Dr. Jennings’ teaching at an American Association of Christian Counselors convention and respect his work greatly.

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Testimony 4

I’m a youth leader in South Africa. We as a youth group are currently using a lot of the material on the Come and Reason site. Since we’ve started using the material, our youth group has grown.

R. V. N., South Africa

 

Testimony 32

The message [of Come And Reason Ministries is] for all Christians (and those who may become Christians) and not just Adventists or any other group. It is difficult to imagine why any [anyone] with intellectual and spiritual honesty could find fault with the way you explained the healing substitution concepts and the truth about God’s character, though I know some will reject and criticize. On behalf of those in our group near Tacoma, WA, thank you and your staff for all of the hard work and for sharing the Gospel in this manner. God’s message of healing love will be carried to the whole world and then Jesus will come – He promised it.

Terry U., Tacoma, WA, USA

 

Testimony 28

I have been following your Bible study class for about a year now. I must say I am impressed with how your ministry has grown. I took it upon myself to listen to all your lesson podcasts from the past and they have both enriched me physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually. I have learnt a lot from this class. I have also noticed how the class has grown in spiritual strength. One of the things that benefited me is that now I am not afraid of God. I use to be, but now it has melted away. The second thing is that you helped me to have a real life relationship with God. Now He is my friend that was always there and I love having him with me all the time. Thirdly, because of this class, it inspired me to take over and lead a class. I have called it “Let Us Reason Together,” adapting your inquisitive style and creating a class of free thinkers.

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Testimony 37

Hearing Dr. Jennings’ presentations in person came at a pivotal moment in my spiritual journey that began about nine months ago, when the fault lines inherent in my belief system began to crack under questions that most reasonable people end up asking about God and His nature. These were questions I couldn’t find answers to, and they shook my faith. I was unable let it go any longer and be satisfied. My Christian experience became distant. I was afraid; the fear in me rose like thorns, pushing me away from Jesus. And then someone heard my questions and introduced me to this ministry, and my life has totally changed.

I can tell you that this new, “present truth” message is far grander and life-changing than when I shifted from being an agnostic and then a nominal Christian. It has radically altered my worldview, because it reveals a God that makes sense. It is a revolution. I believe that Dr. Jennings’ message is the final message that must go to the world. If any message could be called “righteousness by faith,” as abused as that term is by the right and the left, this is that message, because Jennings’ biblical message identifies a God who is different, whose character isn’t an impossible contradiction.

I walk this path now without fear. I see people differently, and the Holy Spirit burns in my heart. Many call Dr. Jennings’ message false and compromising, but it isn’t false, because I’ve seen the fruits within my mind and body. It is not compromising, because in this message is the only road to holiness that makes any sense. No longer do I behold a pagan god who is always angry and suspicious. Instead, I behold a God who is freeing and loving, always working for our good, and giving me every reason to love my enemy even to my own death, just as Jesus pleads with us. God is good.

Anthony L., CA, USA