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Questions About Christ’s Death – Part 2

Questions About Christ’s Death – Part 2

I received the following in response to Part I along with many quotes from another Christian writer. I’m limiting the cited quotations to one due to space.

In regard to the issue of Christ dying for my sinfulness or for sins, I believe He died for both. We need redemption from what we are and from what we do. The Greek word for sin in the NT, according to Strong’s (266 amartia hamartia) has several meanings, one of which is “collectively, the complex or aggregate of sins committed either by a single person or by many”. And what is the full penalty of sin?

Christ in His wisdom gave to His church in its infancy a system of sacrifices and offerings, of which He Himself was the foundation, and by which His death was prefigured. Every sacrifice pointed to Him as the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, that all might understand that the wages of sin is death. In Him was no sin, yet He died for our sins.  1Selected Messages pg 114

You said, “We need redemption from what we are and from what we do,” but I ask, do you think these are somehow disconnected or different?  Or is it like Jesus said, “from the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks,” in other words, what we do is merely a reflection of the condition of our heart?

I think much misunderstanding occurs because people often separate what we do from who we are rather than seeing the connection Christ taught that what we do is the outgrowth, the symptom, the inevitability of what we are. Thus, healing the defect in character, healing the heart and mind, restoring us back into God’s original ideal resolves all the things we do.

One of the things I have learned along the way is that as we study the Bible, we must go beyond what an inspired passage says to understand what it means. You cited multiple passages in which the words, “died for our sins” or “suffered for our sins” were used. The question is not whether this language is used, but what does this language mean!

Does it mean individual acts of sin perpetrated by every individual sinner or does the language used convey the idea of our sinfulness, using the word “sins” to ensure that readers connect themselves to the equation? 

Some theologians take the former position and teach things like, “every sin (actual act) ever committed in the past, present, or future was place upon Christ on the cross and He suffered the penalty for every act of sin.”  Let’s consider the idea that every act of sin was put on Christ and He suffered for every individual act of sin.

First, is sin a commodity? Can it be transferred from person to person?

If every act of sin ever committed or yet to be committed by every saved and lost person the world would ever see was put on Christ and punished in Him and He paid “the full penalty” for all of these acts, then why do the unrepentant wicked have to suffer the “penalty” of sin since their penalty was already “paid in full” by Christ? But then we say God forgives us our sins, because Jesus prayed “forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors.” Well, which is it?  Does God forgive or does Jesus pay?

Let’s look at it this way.  If you owed a debt, could the person you owed the debt to both collect the debt and forgive the debt at the same time? Conversely, if you forgave someone a debt they owed you, could you also collect it? 

If the above theory is true, then could we say that Hitler and Stalin, who together killed 100 million people, thus shortening their lives and preventing trillions of acts of sin from ever being committed, reduced Christ’s suffering on the cross because all those sins never happened? Could we say those who perform abortions reduce Christ’s suffering on the Cross, because by preventing people from being born they are preventing billions of sins from being committed? In other words, would Christ have suffered more if no abortions were performed, because more sins would have been committed that would have needed to be placed on Him at the Cross? 

These scenarios are illogical.  Christ took upon Himself our terminal condition of sinfulness and at the Cross He experienced a weight of emotional anguish (including guilt) beyond which any human will ever suffer. But why? (and this will answer your question as to what the full penalty of sin is). Christ was made to be sin though He knew no sin and in so doing suffered the full penalty of sin, which is separation from God! And why was this so much more devastating and more severe than anyone else will ever suffer? Because Christ was closer to God than anyone else could ever be.

If you were told today you will never be able to be with Osama Bin Laden again, how emotionally distressed would you be? However, if you were told you would never be able to be with your wife again, how emotionally distressed would that make you? It is not distressful to be separated from someone you don’t like, but it is devastating to be separated from someone who is part of you (the two shall become one). God is One! Their unity was broken up.  This is the anguish which is beyond our understanding. Why? Because our condition was upon Him, He was tempted in everyway just like we are, tempted to use His power to save Himself, but He chose to give His life in love instead!  And in doing so He defeated death rather than “paid” the wages of sin – eternal death!

It seems there is another area of misunderstanding I need to clear up as well. I have never said that sin does not carry a penalty.  Sin does carry a penalty. This has been my position all along. So you are quite correct to press forward the idea that sin carries a penalty. What I do say is that the penalty is not an external, God-imposed legal sentence, but an inherent consequence (“penalty “) that comes from sin itself. “The wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23).  “Sin when full grown brings forth death” (James 1:15).  This penalty is the destruction of one’s character, which ultimately results in total and eternal separation from God by our own unfitness and unwillingness to be one with Him in His presence. 

I think the area in which we often get stuck is a misunderstanding of God’s law. Many seem to use a “legal model” of lawyers, advocates, and law-makers with the idea of imposed or created law requiring a sovereign to “impose” penalties to “enforce” the law. This idea has been long standing in religious thought, but it is fundamentally flawed. God’s law is not created or imposed.  It is natural and is the Law of Love, emanating from God’s very personhood.

Think of God’s law like “the laws of health.”  If someone violates the laws of health does anyone have to “impose” penalties on them such as illness, pain, suffering, and/or death? For example, take a person who smokes.  Does anyone (including God) have to impose the penalty of cancer or emphysema? In order to be healed by a doctor, can this person continue to smoke and violate the laws of health or must they come into harmony with the laws of health by ceasing to smoke? 

Likewise, God could not cure the sin problem by violating His Law of Love. He could only cure the sin problem by bringing humanity back into perfect accord with the Law of Love. This is what Christ came to do, perfectly meeting and fulfilling the “demands” of the law, which is none other than perfect, self-sacrificing Love. Violators, on the other hand, who refuse to be healed of their selfishness do not need God to impose an external penalty and instead reap the natural consequences of their choice to be and act selfishly – eternal death.  Why? Because life is designed to operate upon the Law of Love and disharmony with the Law of Love is incompatible with life. On a physical level we could say that life is designed to operate upon the law of respiration and tying a plastic bag over one’s head (violating the law of respiration) results in death, why? Because violation of the law is incompatible with life.

Thanks for such excellent and thoughtful questions. It is only by thinking, studying, reasoning, and following the truth that the lies of satan can be cleansed from our minds.

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Testimony 8

Thank you for the ministry you are sharing with us, it is a real blessing to us and especially to my husband and myself! You are encouraging us to think for ourselves and not just to except everything, without thinking it through, with God’s word!

M.K., USA

 

Testimony 71

When I was 9 years old, I remember setting at our devotional table with a hunger and thirst for God that wanted more, deeper, BETTER. I can remember literally crying and pounding on the table, “I know these teachers didn’t mean to give us error. They taught what THEY had been TAUGHT, but didn’t ANYBODY READ THE BOOK?!?!?” It mattered to me then. It mattered to me as a teenager. It matters now as I teach bible classes. It didn’t have to be so hard as I watched so many give up and lay God’s great plan and gift of salvation aside as being “impossible.” Then, a friend sent me a link to Come And Reason’s website. I grew excited. YES! FINALLY! Then another friend told me to stay away, saying her son had just broken up with a girl because she was involved with Come And Reason and that “Tim Jennings preaches a false gospel.” But, AFTER many years of developing an authentic and, dare I say FUN relationship with Jesus, through the Holy Spirit I see this message has been around a LONG time, since the apostle Paul, Ellen White, Graham Maxwell, Ray Foucher, and yourself (though I admit, you’ve made me back up, rewind and replay the clips, and get out my well-worn Bible on a few things.) I’m so thankful I have found LIGHT during these DARK days. I am not alone.

Vicki DiNitto

Testimony 27

Your teachings about our heavenly Father have changed my life. Thank you sooooooo very very much! I know He’s doing some serious healing in my heart and life and I look forward to each new day to learn something new about Him and to just hear you speak about Him. Thank you, forever.

Nancy S.

 

Testimony 43

Two years ago I stumbled upon your book, “Could It Be This Simple,” and then found “The God-Shaped Brain” videos on YouTube, your bible study class, and the ‘Come And Reason’ mobile app. I shared your book with a friend and after nine months of showing love, patience, and kindness this person has been changed by the love of God, too. The same love that healed me, I now express to other women in tangible ways, such as to a Baptist woman with high anxiety and childhood trauma. She was extremely happy and relieved when I shared about the so-called “judgment of God” and burning in hell. She had no desire to serve a God that was so harsh. I have repeated the phrase dozens of times to her. “What we believe has power over us, but we have power over what we believe…”

This message that you are sharing has changed my life. I will continue to serve other women and bring this message of God’s healing love to their lives by sharing your books, YouTube videos, and The Remedy Bible app. Keep up the good work. Don’t be discouraged. God is doing a mighty work in and through this ministry!

Jill L., Midwest, USA

 

Testimony 32

The message [of Come And Reason Ministries is] for all Christians (and those who may become Christians) and not just Adventists or any other group. It is difficult to imagine why any [anyone] with intellectual and spiritual honesty could find fault with the way you explained the healing substitution concepts and the truth about God’s character, though I know some will reject and criticize. On behalf of those in our group near Tacoma, WA, thank you and your staff for all of the hard work and for sharing the Gospel in this manner. God’s message of healing love will be carried to the whole world and then Jesus will come – He promised it.

Terry U., Tacoma, WA, USA

 

Testimony 52

Your unique way in spreading the truth is what we all need today. Most of us don’t recognize the contamination coming from all the lies and selfishness in the world. Because of our fear of death, we forgot how to live. Lies left and right. I was losing hope and faith, because of so many ideas that are always contradicting each other – so many questions answered by other, more complicated, questions – until I found your channel on YouTube.

You did not just give me answers, you also taught me how to answer new questions that arise in my mind. Now I see things differently. I see God’s mercy, grace, and Love everywhere, in spite of all the chaos that we all have done as humans. I don’t fear death anymore. Accepting the Truth and Love about God is truly a genuine Freedom from all the confusions, sufferings, selfishness, pain, and death.

I just wanted to say, thank you, sooooo much for revealing the real Remedy for our infected life. I have a new hope and now see the world in a different perspective!

Wheinny P., University Place, WA, USA

 

Testimony 49

I came into the church at 21, but that is as far as it went. I was so confused about what love is. I couldn’t find it in the bible, because I am not a person that can read between the lines. I have no logic. I have read many, many books; trying to figure out the crux of the matter. They were helpful, but something was still missing. I have become very frustrated to the point of crying out to God, “Where can I go?”  I needed some basics.

I found two books, written by Timothy Jennings, MD, to be very helpful. God showed me that I had lived my whole life in fear. I didn’t even see it. Now, I do. God is so good.  I discovered the “The Remedy”  Dr. Jennings new book, “The God-Shaped Heart!” Oh, I was so excited, I purchased them right away.

I can get rid of most of my books, because “The Remedy” brings the Love of God out so clearly, even I can’t miss it. Now, I want to sit and read my Bible. Wow, what a revelation! It is just simply Awesome! I am so grateful to Jehovah Almighty for hearing my prayer for more understanding! I am so encouraged!

Jackie S.

 

Testimony 42

I am just writing to say that I have been so blessed by the teachings of Come And Reason Minitries recently. I watched last week’s bible study lesson on Youtube and am thankful that the error in the printed lesson guide you use was pointed out and this week’s study was of equal benefit, if not more so. My understanding of God’s nature has been very confused of late and I am so grateful for clarity in this matter. I have never really fully understood previously how a good God can cause bad things to happen and now I realise that He doesn’t, it’s a natural consequence of sin. May the almighty Father and His Son, our Saviour Jesus Christ, continue to bless your ministry.

Laura P., United Kingdom

 

Testimony 48

I just want to tell you how blessed I have been reading “The Remedy!” It has become a daily part of my devotional relationship with God. In it I have found a God of love and a God that loves me! The bible has come alive for me! It is the first time that I can say that I have felt hope fill my heart as I have read God’s word. This is good news I can share! Thank you, Dr Jennings! Thank you for your heart for others. I can’t put into words how this has set me free! It has strengthened my trust and love for God.

Jason H.

 

Testimony 28

I have been following your Bible study class for about a year now. I must say I am impressed with how your ministry has grown. I took it upon myself to listen to all your lesson podcasts from the past and they have both enriched me physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually. I have learnt a lot from this class. I have also noticed how the class has grown in spiritual strength. One of the things that benefited me is that now I am not afraid of God. I use to be, but now it has melted away. The second thing is that you helped me to have a real life relationship with God. Now He is my friend that was always there and I love having him with me all the time. Thirdly, because of this class, it inspired me to take over and lead a class. I have called it “Let Us Reason Together,” adapting your inquisitive style and creating a class of free thinkers.

T. Banda, Malawi, Africa

 

Testimony 39

[This ministry is the] biggest blessing I have ever received! Your DVDs and lessons could not have come at a better time in my life. I have experienced in the past year many difficulties that, if it wasn’t for this wonderful view of God that I have discovered through this ministry, I would not have been able to respond in love and forgiveness. My heart is being transformed everyday by the Calvary-looking God you teach. Hallelujah!! I have tears in my eyes as I write, because my life has taken a complete turn from where I was heading.

I am from Central America. Most of my family is scattered in different parts of the world and all have the same view of God that I had growing up; a distant, exacting, and ready-to-punish-us-with-tragedy type of God. So, I have been translating lessons for my family and, to my surprise, they have also been sharing them with others! I can already see the difference. My brother has often said, “Thank you for sharing, I have never heard it this way!” My other family members are taking an amazing turn from a message of “repent or burn” towards a loving God, pleading to us that we won’t reject him because he loves us eternally.

Bless you for all you do.

Sofia S., Ashfield, MA, USA

 

Testimony 50

After coming into contact with Come And Reason Ministries, I can finally say that many of my unanswered questions have fallen into place. I discovered that my view of God’s Law was “imposed laws and rules” with “imposed punishments” and that this was the major culprit of my many unanswered questions. Thanks be to God for using you and those around you to help us who have struggled with this “infection” of thought. I have now rejected the “imposed law” concept to fully embrace “Design Law”… to look thru “Design Law,” instead of “imposed law,” is a relief.

Viliami L., Australia

 

Testimony 54

I had a lot of pressure, as a pastor’s kid, to conform and be “good.” I was good at being “good.” I thought my life was going along well until it all started falling apart and I could not figure out why! In my search for “why is this happening to me, God?” I came across your book, “Could it be this Simple,” and God started revealing to me the many distortions I held about His character, His principles, and how He has designed His universe to operate. I remember thinking, “Wow, I have had this all backwards.” I was happy and angry all at the same time. Happy to have the light of truth break through the darkness, revealing a wonderful, beautiful way of understanding God and His plan for His children, and angry, because I felt deceived and cheated by the church, my family, and myself!

My heart thrills when I listen to your bible study lessons. Literally I have gone from death to life. It is a journey I look forward to every day, as God reveals areas this distortion affects. Praise GOD! I will ever be grateful to God for this ministry and your cooperation with the Spirit!

Karen S., Portal, AZ, USA

 

Testimony 11

I would love to have a copy of “Healing the Mind” DVDs to have in my therapy office. I enjoy having clients check out materials to enhance their therapy experience. I have sat under Dr. Jennings’ teaching at an American Association of Christian Counselors convention and respect his work greatly.

K.B., LA, USA

 

Testimony 14

We really appreciate your views on the judgment and they make good sense considering our free choice.

Anonymous