Call Us: 423 661-4734 | Email: requests@comeandreason.com      
Questions About Christ’s Death – Part 1

Questions About Christ’s Death – Part 1

I listened to one of your lessons for the first time yesterday, and I was puzzled by a couple of things you said. First, why do you seem to have a disagreement with the statement in the quarterly that says, “Christ died for our sins”?

This is actually a direct quote from scripture (emphasis supplied by emailer).

1Co 15:3  For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures.

The second point I disagree with you on is the statement that you made, “Christ did not die the second death. He died to destroy death.” Yes, Jesus died to abolish or destroy death, but the death He died was the second death.

“Show to your hearers Jesus in his condescension to save fallen man. Show them that He who was their surety had to take human nature, and carry it through the darkness and the fearfulness of the malediction of his Father, because of man’s transgression of his law; for the Saviour was found in fashion as a man. Describe, if human language can, the humiliation of the Son of God, and think not that you have reached the climax, when you see him exchanging the throne of light and glory which he had with the Father, for humanity. He came forth from heaven to earth; and while on earth, he bore the curse of God as surety for the fallen race. He was not obliged to do this. He chose to bear the wrath of God, which man had incurred through disobedience to the divine law.” RH.1888-09-11.010  

“Christ felt much as sinners will feel when the vials of God’s wrath shall be poured out upon them. Black despair, like the pall of death, will gather about their guilty souls, and then they will realize to the fullest extent the sinfulness of sin. Salvation has been purchased for them by the suffering and death of the Son of God. It might be theirs, if they would accept of it willingly, gladly; but none are compelled to yield obedience to the law of God. If they refuse the heavenly benefit and choose the pleasures and deceitfulness of sin, they have their choice, and at the end receive their wages, which is the wrath of God and eternal death. They will be forever separated from the presence of Jesus, whose sacrifice they had despised. They will have lost a life of happiness and sacrificed eternal glory for the pleasures of sin for a season.” 2T.210.001 

These quotes do not support what you are teaching, but thank you for making me dig!


Thanks for your thoughts and listening to our lessons. I think there may be some misunderstanding regarding your concerns so let me clarify, and I really appreciate you sharing your thoughts and willingness to open a channel for clarification.

Regarding 1 Cor 15:3, if we consider what Christ taught in Matthew 5 that sin is not the act but the condition of the heart that leads to bad acts (lust in the heart, hate in the heart) we realize that the acts of sin are conditions of a sinful heart and mind, a warped character. The purpose of Christ’s mission was not to die for “sins” but to cure our “sinfulness” and the word in the Corinthians text can be translated “sinful” or “sins” so I do no violence to the scripture in seeing that Christ died for our sinfulness, our sick condition in order to heal and restore. In fact, the weight of scripture would support this position when we realize the plan of salvation is about having a “new heart and right spirit”, having “the mind of Christ”, being “reborn”, being “recreated in the inner man”, having the law “written on the heart”, being “partakers of the divine nature, etc. In other words the plan of salvation is the plan of curing our sinfulness and restoring us in righteousness rather than dying for “acts.”

You cited several quotes and then concluded they do not support what I am teaching regarding Christ and the second death. Would you be willing to explore that conclusion? I believe each one of the quotes you cited support exactly what I am teaching. Let me explain where I think the breakdown in our understanding has occurred:

I want to be clear that I never said Jesus didn’t experience God’s “wrath” upon sin. I believe He did. I never said He wasn’t treated as we deserve etc. etc. I believe He was. I said He didn’t die the second death. What does the evidence say? Please notice that none of the quotations you cited actually says Jesus died the second death. In fact the one which uses the words “eternal death” doesn’t say Jesus died it but that the wicked will.

Please see my previous blog, Did Christ die the “Second Death”? for a full explanation and discussion of the second death. 

Many people get stuck on believing that Jesus died the second death because they have bought a false idea of Jesus’ purpose, namely penal substitution, that Jesus had to pay a legal penalty and that penalty is eternal death. Therefore it is insisted that we must believe Jesus died that death so our penalty is paid. But this is because the problem has been misdiagnosed as a legal problem rather than the reality that our very nature and condition was changed by sinfulness and needs fixing/curing. Jesus came to cure the condition of sinfulness and thus destroyed death (2Tim 1:9,10 Heb 2:14), not pay a legal penalty to His Father or the Law. And Jesus did just that, therefore after defeating death He was free to rise again. 

The place where the death of Christ and the death of the wicked are similar and for which the quotes you cited are correct is God’s action toward each. God acts the same toward each in that He gives each up to reap the consequences of their own choices (God’s wrath, see Romans 1:18, 24,26,28). He gave Christ up (Romans 4:25) to reap what Christ freely chose – the path of the Cross, to be our substitute in defeating sinfulness and curing our condition. And God gives the wicked up to reap what they have chosen eternal separation from Him, dying in their unhealed state.

Email me the blog whenever a new one is published.

Donate online, securely via PayPal using your credit or debit card (no PayPal account needed, unless you want to set up a monthly, recurring payment).


cancel recurring payment

 

Want to use zelle instead?
See how on our
Support and Donations page.

Upcoming Events

calendar

Testimonial Post Slider

Testimony 64

I’ve been reading the bible and walking with Jesus since I was around 16. I’m 42 now. I’ve mostly been alone in my walk although I went to several churches in different denominations. For the past 3 years God has been showing me His character of agape. It’s been a blessing and changed how I view God and my walk with Jesus. About a year ago I came across the power of love and the principles of design law. These teachings changed how I read scripture and have been such a beautiful blessing. I’m very excited and grateful for these truths. We share these truths of agape, design law and the reality of the principles of the two trees in the garden of Eden with people on Facebook and YouTube. People all over are learning to trust God and His agape design law which makes life possible. Thank you for everything you shared with me. May God continue to bless your ministry and lives.

Bradley M., Hinsdale, NY, USA

 

Testimony 46

Over the past couple of years God has been expanding my view of Himself and His character. Along my approximately 40-year journey, I have often had questions, but was hesitant to voice these and step outside the traditionally accepted thinking, for fear of admitting that I may in fact be eternally lost. In the recesses of my thinking has been the thought – if one blindly accepts (which is widely regarded as “real faith”) and does not question, is this really ‘truth?’ I often find it challenging to grapple with very theological ‘speak,’ but Dr. Jennings has a real gift of explaining spiritual concepts with clear practical examples. The weekly discussions are growing my Christian experience and slowly changing my view of how to live as a child of God in today’s complex world. Finally the whole Old Testament sanctuary teaching moved in my mind from fantasy to reality!

Beverly S., South Africa

 

Testimony 38

Since November 2015, when I started studying Gods word from this God Is Love point of view, my life has been transformed. My troubled marriage of 15 years has been healed and my husband and I are truly happy for the first time in 15 years. Now When I read the word of God I understand it so much better and I can’t help but see Gods love radiating through the pages to humanity. Gods word is living and active and I am blessed beyond measure to be having this amazing experience. God has given me a beautiful understanding of Jn 3:16 that amazes me more and more each day. Thank you again for your ministry.

Helen D., London, England

 

Testimony 55

I was born [into the church], then I left it for many years. 10 years ago, I came back, but I could not take the hypocrisy and the lack of answers to the missing pieces. I struggled, but I did not abandon my commitment to know the truth. God is leading me to the simple understanding of his relevance and I am relearning what the church taught me as a youth… that he loves me, that he has led me to a knowledge of him such as I have never known. He is using Dr. Jennings to connect the dots that are now so apparent and hiding in plain sight!

Dean P., Arlington, TX, USA

 

Testimony 47

I can’t even begin to thank you and your ministry enough for introducing me to the Truth about a loving and merciful God! I have my daughter and her in-laws to thank for sharing with me “The God-Shaped Brain” as well as your website. I listen to the Bible study class lessons on my daily walk. May God continue to bless your thirst-quenching ministry!

Liz H., Port Angeles, WA, USA

 

 

Testimony 16

Your seminars are still inspiring and changing our lives and we continue to share the principles we have learned from you. Your ministry has changed our lives!

E.W.

 

Testimony 60

Just watched watched lesson 10 in the 1st quarter 2021 bible study classs on Isaiah. I want to thank you for your intellectual spirituality; it’s not an oxymoron! From the point of view of a teacher I also enjoy seeing how much personal pleasure you clearly take in not just tasting, but feasting on God’s word – it reminds me of Jeremiah not being able to hold it in! It makes me smile that your cup is so full and overflowing that you make it to Tuesday’s lesson (on a good day). It just goes to show the richness of God’s Word.

God bless the Come and Reason Team from our church here in Great Britain.

Andrew H., Great Britain

 

Testimony 5

We listen to your bible studies lessons in our class in Montana. You actually were the main reason I decided to get a laptop, so I can go to your site and listen, read, learn, and print the class notes. I am so grateful to learn the correct view of God and his character. Now, to just have others have an interest in knowing, so I can share it with them. Good thoughts your way.

R. N., MT, USA

 

Testimony 1

Thank you! I love listening to the Come And Reason Ministries Bible study classes and am using some of your notes to get the lessons together that I will be teaching. You always have such good quotes and Bible texts and pull things together to make good sense.

T. C., IN, USA

 

Testimony 20

I just wanted to personally thank you for your teachings and insight into scripture. I came across your website via my cousin who suggested I look into “Healing the Mind” information. My youngest daughter has been struggling over the last couple of years and it all came to a head this spring. When I started listening to the “Healing the Mind” lectures my own life began to be transformed. I began sharing with all my daughters the concepts you laid out so clearly. I ordered your book and soaked it up. I just want to say “Thank You!” My walk with the Lord has been refreshed and renewed. Your obedience to the Lord is a blessing to so many.

R. K., Anderson, SC, USA

 

Testimony 19

I truly believe that to know who God really is the first step to understand ourselves in a balanced and kind way, so the healing can take place. Your approach really makes sense – Thank you for your ministry!

A.M., Pittsburg, PA, USA

Testimony 62

I would like to express my thanks to the C&R team for creating a platform from which people can learn to trust in God and grow. My life is a witness to the effectiveness of this ministry. Without believing the truth about God as you have shown, I don’t know what my life would be like. I had given up on God helping me with certain sins – it was all useless. Given that the scripture is clear and God is so good, how could I have betrayed him so many times? I was a yo-yo christian; spinning up and down. My faith and enthusiasm was driven by discoveries/threats that prophecy is about to be fulfilled. But when I watched your “Healing the Mind” seminar, it was like a light finally went on. I could see God had no plan to hurt me, the danger came from sin, and that He is working to protect me and strengthen me. Thank you for allowing God to use you. The message God gave C&R saved my life!

Antony N. – Hobart, Australia

 

Testimony 66

I am incredibly grateful for the transformative impact you’ve had on my life, and words cannot fully express my appreciation. Over the years, I have been an avid listener and follower of C&R and extend my heartfelt thanks for creating the C&R mobile app. It has allowed me to immerse myself in your lessons repeatedly, enabling me to grasp the profound significance about the Character of God, Design Law, the protocols for life, the reasons behind the current chaos, and Christ’s mission to restore everything. They have deeply touched me. Having studied with various churches, I came away with the perception that God is no different from the deities of ancient Greek or Roman mythology—demanding sacrifices and taking pleasure in bloodshed. Thanks to your transformative teachings, I have experienced a profound awakening to the true nature of God and the immense power of His love. It is truly a remarkable and liberating sensation to finally grasp the truth and embrace the empowering nature of God’s laws. My self-perception has become brighter and more infused with love. My journey of growth continues on a daily basis.

Chris P., Lake Mary, FL, USA

 

Testimony 33

I was invited over a friend’s house to see the “God and Your Brain” seminar today. I became [a christian] 36 years ago at the age of 19, but have struggled with the concept of God taking His ‘pound of flesh’ out on His Son to be appeased. Wow. Your seminar has been an incredible revelation and breath of reason and fresh air! I have your book, “The God Shaped Brain,” and it is SO eye opening. Finally, after 36 years enlightenment has come! Praise the Good Lord! What can I say, but that the Real Gospel is truly “Good News!” Thank you for your efforts in giving the Gospel a clear sound!

Paul C.,  Springfield, MA, USA

 

Testimony 24

I wanted to thank you very much for presenting your understanding of God. I’ve always been troubled by this question: Why did Jesus have to die? Since my conversion I understood that The Father & Jesus are one, I did not have issues with that. But was there not any other way to save us than for Jesus to die? I guess I actually had a question about God – if He is so wise, how come He did not find another way? I did not see the real ‘beauty’  in the cross. Only when you explained the picture in the medical context, Jesus providing medicine for my selfishness, have I started to finally ‘see the light’. Thank you so much. Your seminar, “Healing the Mind,” are absolutely marvelous & have shared them with my family and many other people, including colleagues at work. Thanks, thanks, thanks. May God bless you abundantly in your ministry.

M. W., Australia