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Open Theism

Open Theism

Is it not true that [you have a link in Come And Reason’s Web Resources to] Greg Boyd is a leading open theist?  He advocates a view that God’s omniscience is seeing all possibilities, not the choices that have not yet been made by human free will.

  I agree with Greg Boyd in this area.

Well, in lesson number 4, you suggest that God did foresee absolutely the fall of man, while the author suggests it was just a possibility.  Then you go on to state how horrible a God would be if he did not foresee it.  As an open theist I am wanting your thoughts on the matter?

Pastor M


Thank you for contacting me. You are right that Come And Reason has a link to Greg Boyd’s website and I believe you are right that he is an open theist. I have never met Greg Boyd nor read about his views on this subject, but have heard others tell me this is true.

However, I have also heard that Greg Boyd has a sincerely open mind and is honestly pursuing truth, wanting to follow it where it leads, therefore I anticipate in time he will change his view on this issue. If you are wondering why their is a link to his site it is because I agree with him on God’s methods of rulership, namely the law of love rather than the rule of force. I have read some beautiful things he has written on this subject and believe he is right on.

Regarding open theism: I have to follow the evidence and truth where it leads. There are two types of evidence in the Bible, declarative  statements and the historical record. Let’s look at the historical record first, which I find more persuasive.

At the time of the flood God directed Noah to build how many arks? Why only one? If God didn’t know beforehand how people would respond, if God could only calculate the various possibilities and until the door to the ark was closed God was still wondering how many would respond, then what does it mean that God didn’t have more arks ready? If God didn’t know beforehand how many would say yes and choose to get onboard, wouldn’t that mean He never intended to let all on, but just a few people, thus making Noah’s 120 years of preaching a sham? I reject this view and believe that God did know their choices before they made them and Noah preached to show God did not exclude anyone, thus only one ark was needed, because God foreknew how they would choose.

The prophecies of Daniel demonstrating the fall of kingdoms one after the other and predicting the rise of the next kingdom all the way through the fall of Rome to the second coming demonstrate that God foreknew choices and events, not just the possibilities that might occur. I realize open theists are not comfortable with this so they try and move the date of Daniel to the time of the Roman Empire and yet what does the prophecy next predict? That there would be no other world empire to rise.  This prediction goes completely against the trend of history as four empires in a row had come and human thought would have predicted another to follow. Only One who knows the future before it happens could have predicted with such certainty that no other world power would control those lands again. This requires knowledge of individual decisions of how kings and generals will act.

Now the declarative statements:

(Isa 46:9,10) “I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done., saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Ecc 3:11 He hath made every [thing] beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.

Finally, I do not believe God is restricted by the physical laws of the universe such as gravity, thermodynamics, etc. To me this also means God is not restricted by the fabric of space/time. In other words, God lives outside of time. We are linear creatures who live in time, but God is not.

God sits above, over, and outside of time and can see clearly all history; past, present, and future.  To Him there is no mystery and no uncertainty. Our infinite God can enter and exit time as He pleases. There are places in history where God has entered into time to experience and share it with His creatures. He entered time daily to visit with Adam and Eve in the cool of the day before their fall. He visited Abraham and Moses and spoke with them as friends. Ultimately, He came and lived for 33 years as one of us within the confines of time.

Understanding this gives us insight into how God can say things like He was grieved that He had made mankind (Gen 6:6). God stepped into time and expressed in terms we humans could understand the pain in His heart over wayward man. But this does not mean God is restricted by time. He can enter or leave time easier than we can enter or leave a pool of water.

The open theism view restricts God.  It places Him under the confines of linear existence and reduces Him from infinite to something less than infinite, a being confined by the limitations of space/time which He created. This I cannot accept. My God is infinite in love, in goodness, in power, in knowledge, and in ability.

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Testimony 14

We really appreciate your views on the judgment and they make good sense considering our free choice.

Anonymous

 

Testimony 29

Thank you for all of your work to correct misconceptions about God’s character. So many people that my husband and I have talked to seem to be against the natural law construct and view it as “errant” and “dangerous.” Having learned more about it through your blogs and lessons, I don’t really understand why they view it that way, except that it means they have to relearn theology they have known for their entire lives. But I’m so excited to relearn this. For the past few years I have been questioning how I could trust a God who punishes arbitrarily and is full of wrath for those who don’t obey His commands. That view made me afraid to “mess up” or “not be good enough,” even within my relationship with God. I really appreciated the point you bring out about God not wanting us to serve Him because we are afraid, but because we love Him.

Melissa H., IN, USA

 

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I just wanted to personally thank you for your teachings and insight into scripture. I came across your website via my cousin who suggested I look into “Healing the Mind” information. My youngest daughter has been struggling over the last couple of years and it all came to a head this spring. When I started listening to the “Healing the Mind” lectures my own life began to be transformed. I began sharing with all my daughters the concepts you laid out so clearly. I ordered your book and soaked it up. I just want to say “Thank You!” My walk with the Lord has been refreshed and renewed. Your obedience to the Lord is a blessing to so many.

R. K., Anderson, SC, USA

 

Testimony 67

I was introduced to Come And Reason by a friend of my mother-in-law, who gave me several CD’s of Dr. Jennings. The clarity of the message and recognition that God’s is a God of love was so clear, advancing beyond Dr. Maxwell’s message. However, grappled with Maxwell saying God used emergency measures for the fallen world. Now after several years of being a regular listener of the Come And Reasoning bible study class and attending Jennings’ meetings in Dallas/Fort Worth, TX, things are becoming clearer for me. Design law versus imposed law has added so much to my personal understanding of theology. This message has really impacted my work in counseling so many people miserable because they are searching for and trusting human governments to create order and peace or believing in a God who says love Me or I will kill you. I am grateful that I have an alternative view to offer my clients that makes sense. I teach a bible study class on a semi-regular basis and I value the materials that Come And Reason so freely offers to aid me in presenting this vital message. Thank you for continuing to provide advancement in our very limited understanding of a Infinite God that is rational and believable.

Dr. Roger D, Arlington, TX, USA

 

Testimony 54

I had a lot of pressure, as a pastor’s kid, to conform and be “good.” I was good at being “good.” I thought my life was going along well until it all started falling apart and I could not figure out why! In my search for “why is this happening to me, God?” I came across your book, “Could it be this Simple,” and God started revealing to me the many distortions I held about His character, His principles, and how He has designed His universe to operate. I remember thinking, “Wow, I have had this all backwards.” I was happy and angry all at the same time. Happy to have the light of truth break through the darkness, revealing a wonderful, beautiful way of understanding God and His plan for His children, and angry, because I felt deceived and cheated by the church, my family, and myself!

My heart thrills when I listen to your bible study lessons. Literally I have gone from death to life. It is a journey I look forward to every day, as God reveals areas this distortion affects. Praise GOD! I will ever be grateful to God for this ministry and your cooperation with the Spirit!

Karen S., Portal, AZ, USA

 

Testimony 16

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E.W.

 

Testimony 45

I have been confused for years about what [christianity] calls [its] most disgusting teaching. It has never made much sense to me and for that reason has been evermore empty. I have listened to your class off and on and have struggled determining what is truth, because of the resistance design law encounters in the church. So, I thank God for your ministry. What you teach makes sense. It’s logical and backed up by the power of love. I have never seen that in Christ until now. I am astounded by the insight that is found when we look at God’s ministry through design law. All strength to this message, as I believe it to be the power of God.

Brendon S.

 

Testimony 39

[This ministry is the] biggest blessing I have ever received! Your DVDs and lessons could not have come at a better time in my life. I have experienced in the past year many difficulties that, if it wasn’t for this wonderful view of God that I have discovered through this ministry, I would not have been able to respond in love and forgiveness. My heart is being transformed everyday by the Calvary-looking God you teach. Hallelujah!! I have tears in my eyes as I write, because my life has taken a complete turn from where I was heading.

I am from Central America. Most of my family is scattered in different parts of the world and all have the same view of God that I had growing up; a distant, exacting, and ready-to-punish-us-with-tragedy type of God. So, I have been translating lessons for my family and, to my surprise, they have also been sharing them with others! I can already see the difference. My brother has often said, “Thank you for sharing, I have never heard it this way!” My other family members are taking an amazing turn from a message of “repent or burn” towards a loving God, pleading to us that we won’t reject him because he loves us eternally.

Bless you for all you do.

Sofia S., Ashfield, MA, USA

 

Testimony 40

I was brought up in a different faith and have been petrified my whole life of God. I believed that I would burn in hell for eternity. When I was 12 I started pursuing the things of this world, but for the next 45 years the Spirit was always calling me, as I knew there was a God through nature. I could see the vast sea of stars in the universe and knew there was something bigger out there. Five years ago, through a Revelation seminar, I was blessed to learn about God’s character and government.

Then I found Come and Reason Ministries and have come under some extreme pressure when I speak about the ministry. One time a member sent me an internet article titled “Whats wrong with Tim Jennings?” I asked her what she thought of it and she said “I don’t know, I didn’t read it.”

I have always wanted to find out for myself the truth about God, so I stayed with the Design Law construct and have been liberated to understand the big picture. Once we consider Design Law, all other Bible stories and prophecies seem to fit perfectly. It is truly beautiful to see people grasping how God operates this Universe of Love and the liberation it has provided in their lives. It blows my mind to see how consistent Design law is with what our founders believed. I hear statements like “This makes so much sense.”

Tom W., Mt. Pleasant, MI, USA

 

Testimony 46

Over the past couple of years God has been expanding my view of Himself and His character. Along my approximately 40-year journey, I have often had questions, but was hesitant to voice these and step outside the traditionally accepted thinking, for fear of admitting that I may in fact be eternally lost. In the recesses of my thinking has been the thought – if one blindly accepts (which is widely regarded as “real faith”) and does not question, is this really ‘truth?’ I often find it challenging to grapple with very theological ‘speak,’ but Dr. Jennings has a real gift of explaining spiritual concepts with clear practical examples. The weekly discussions are growing my Christian experience and slowly changing my view of how to live as a child of God in today’s complex world. Finally the whole Old Testament sanctuary teaching moved in my mind from fantasy to reality!

Beverly S., South Africa

 

Testimony 63

I’ve been very blessed by “The God Shaped Brain” and this ministry, through video and podcast, over the last few years. It’s truly opened up my eyes more to the truth about God and the importance of that truth in the present world. The message is so inviting, freeing and enlightening and MORE people need to know about it. I believe it is the last message that can truly, not only prepare a people for salvation and translation, but vindicate the character of God.

Michael V., Yonkers, NY, USA

 

Testimony 27

Your teachings about our heavenly Father have changed my life. Thank you sooooooo very very much! I know He’s doing some serious healing in my heart and life and I look forward to each new day to learn something new about Him and to just hear you speak about Him. Thank you, forever.

Nancy S.

 

Testimony 3

My husband is a pastor and I listen to your lesson almost every week. Thank you for helping me in my study life and to help me love the “real” God more.

C. F., NC, USA

 

Testimony 7

Ok, so last night I listened to “The Law of Liberty” and “How to Achieve Victory: Freedom, Truth and Spirtual Warfare.” These are both MY ABSOLUTE FAVORITES so far! The logic is just soooooo beautiful. I had to re-listen to them a couple of times. I just want to EXPLODE! (<< we assume with joy and happiness)

N. B., Canada

 

Testimony 34

I was introduced to Come and Reason Ministries by accident, via a passing comment made in a bible study class we were visiting. I checked this website out and my life was changed. The understanding of the truth of God’s character, and how we apply it, is so right. The tricky part is consistently applying which “lens” to look through. As I began to understand, I started sharing the basics of this understanding with a discussion group I was leading and, suddenly, a lot of things started to make sense that never used to. At the same time, I enjoyed an amazing opportunity. I was able to conduct a full bible study at WORK! What an amazing experience! It is such a joy to share the truth about God and to share how it all fits in the war between God and Satan. So many people benefit when we have a correct understanding about how God works and who He really is! Thank you for this transformational understanding. Keep up the good work! God Bless you!

Tony P., CA, USA