Open Theism

Open Theism

Is it not true that [you have a link in Come And Reason’s Web Resources to] Greg Boyd is a leading open theist?  He advocates a view that God’s omniscience is seeing all possibilities, not the choices that have not yet been made by human free will.

  I agree with Greg Boyd in this area.

Well, in lesson number 4, you suggest that God did foresee absolutely the fall of man, while the author suggests it was just a possibility.  Then you go on to state how horrible a God would be if he did not foresee it.  As an open theist I am wanting your thoughts on the matter?

Pastor M


Thank you for contacting me. You are right that Come And Reason has a link to Greg Boyd’s website and I believe you are right that he is an open theist. I have never met Greg Boyd nor read about his views on this subject, but have heard others tell me this is true.

However, I have also heard that Greg Boyd has a sincerely open mind and is honestly pursuing truth, wanting to follow it where it leads, therefore I anticipate in time he will change his view on this issue. If you are wondering why their is a link to his site it is because I agree with him on God’s methods of rulership, namely the law of love rather than the rule of force. I have read some beautiful things he has written on this subject and believe he is right on.

Regarding open theism: I have to follow the evidence and truth where it leads. There are two types of evidence in the Bible, declarative  statements and the historical record. Let’s look at the historical record first, which I find more persuasive.

At the time of the flood God directed Noah to build how many arks? Why only one? If God didn’t know beforehand how people would respond, if God could only calculate the various possibilities and until the door to the ark was closed God was still wondering how many would respond, then what does it mean that God didn’t have more arks ready? If God didn’t know beforehand how many would say yes and choose to get onboard, wouldn’t that mean He never intended to let all on, but just a few people, thus making Noah’s 120 years of preaching a sham? I reject this view and believe that God did know their choices before they made them and Noah preached to show God did not exclude anyone, thus only one ark was needed, because God foreknew how they would choose.

The prophecies of Daniel demonstrating the fall of kingdoms one after the other and predicting the rise of the next kingdom all the way through the fall of Rome to the second coming demonstrate that God foreknew choices and events, not just the possibilities that might occur. I realize open theists are not comfortable with this so they try and move the date of Daniel to the time of the Roman Empire and yet what does the prophecy next predict? That there would be no other world empire to rise.  This prediction goes completely against the trend of history as four empires in a row had come and human thought would have predicted another to follow. Only One who knows the future before it happens could have predicted with such certainty that no other world power would control those lands again. This requires knowledge of individual decisions of how kings and generals will act.

Now the declarative statements:

(Isa 46:9,10) “I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done., saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Ecc 3:11 He hath made every [thing] beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.

Finally, I do not believe God is restricted by the physical laws of the universe such as gravity, thermodynamics, etc. To me this also means God is not restricted by the fabric of space/time. In other words, God lives outside of time. We are linear creatures who live in time, but God is not.

God sits above, over, and outside of time and can see clearly all history; past, present, and future.  To Him there is no mystery and no uncertainty. Our infinite God can enter and exit time as He pleases. There are places in history where God has entered into time to experience and share it with His creatures. He entered time daily to visit with Adam and Eve in the cool of the day before their fall. He visited Abraham and Moses and spoke with them as friends. Ultimately, He came and lived for 33 years as one of us within the confines of time.

Understanding this gives us insight into how God can say things like He was grieved that He had made mankind (Gen 6:6). God stepped into time and expressed in terms we humans could understand the pain in His heart over wayward man. But this does not mean God is restricted by time. He can enter or leave time easier than we can enter or leave a pool of water.

The open theism view restricts God.  It places Him under the confines of linear existence and reduces Him from infinite to something less than infinite, a being confined by the limitations of space/time which He created. This I cannot accept. My God is infinite in love, in goodness, in power, in knowledge, and in ability.

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Testimony 65

I have been tuning into your weekly study classes for a while now and wanted express my appreciation for the teachings that ha been a huge blessing in opening up the true message of the word. Viewing scripture under an imposed law theory always, without fail, raised more questions, concerns, and conflicting scripture interpretations that were discouraging at the very least. Looking at scripture through the design law lens has brought more truth to light for me personally and an understanding of our Heavenly Father that places Him “above all others,” where I am now more than thrilled to witness and serve Him.  I “stumbled” across this ministry a year or so ago and would only watch a few minutes at a time. But the more I listened and the longer I paid attention, the more my spiritual eyes were opened to the ever present truths of scripture. The comprehension of the great controversy and it’s origin by the lies perpetrated and perpetuated throughout the Bible on the attack of God’s character and government is truly priceless. Keep up the Good Work! Your servanthood is desperately needed in such a time as this!

Jeff D., Reading, MA, USA

 

Testimony 39

[This ministry is the] biggest blessing I have ever received! Your DVDs and lessons could not have come at a better time in my life. I have experienced in the past year many difficulties that, if it wasn’t for this wonderful view of God that I have discovered through this ministry, I would not have been able to respond in love and forgiveness. My heart is being transformed everyday by the Calvary-looking God you teach. Hallelujah!! I have tears in my eyes as I write, because my life has taken a complete turn from where I was heading.

I am from Central America. Most of my family is scattered in different parts of the world and all have the same view of God that I had growing up; a distant, exacting, and ready-to-punish-us-with-tragedy type of God. So, I have been translating lessons for my family and, to my surprise, they have also been sharing them with others! I can already see the difference. My brother has often said, “Thank you for sharing, I have never heard it this way!” My other family members are taking an amazing turn from a message of “repent or burn” towards a loving God, pleading to us that we won’t reject him because he loves us eternally.

Bless you for all you do.

Sofia S., Ashfield, MA, USA

 

Testimony 17

The blessings of clarity and understanding you and your class inspire me to take from the word of God have impressed upon me so greatly the true, loving character of our Creator. I have found amazing freedom and joy through building a stronger, more intentional relationship with Him. What is new is that this is now a relationship built on love, reverence and respect rather than fear and obligation, and as such my eyes have been slammed OPEN as I am continually impressed by the manifestations of God’s true character in His provisions for fallen man.

T.E.H., Salt Lake City, UT, USA

 

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I have been really blessed reading your response to the various questions on your site.

K.C., OH, USA

 

Testimony 20

I just wanted to personally thank you for your teachings and insight into scripture. I came across your website via my cousin who suggested I look into “Healing the Mind” information. My youngest daughter has been struggling over the last couple of years and it all came to a head this spring. When I started listening to the “Healing the Mind” lectures my own life began to be transformed. I began sharing with all my daughters the concepts you laid out so clearly. I ordered your book and soaked it up. I just want to say “Thank You!” My walk with the Lord has been refreshed and renewed. Your obedience to the Lord is a blessing to so many.

R. K., Anderson, SC, USA

 

Testimony 70

I have been watching you for many years and have learned to love God with all my heart. I was raised by a loving Christian mother that had been lied to about who God really was, so our religious upbringing was hell fire and damnation. As soon as I was old enough and moved out, I not only left the church, I ran as fast as I could to get away from it. Sad to say, it wasn’t until the past couple of years that I learned and understand who my Father really is and how much He loves me. I understand God’s Design Laws (which make sense) and when I’m teaching my church Bible study class, I’m able to really put to use the things I’ve been learning and Holy Spirit is leading. Thank you for introducing me to my Father of true, pure love. Everyday with Him is new and exciting. One thing that breaks my heart is that I didn’t know Him sooner. God Bless you and your ministry!

Judy Phelps, Reno, NV, USA

Testimony 71

When I was 9 years old, I remember setting at our devotional table with a hunger and thirst for God that wanted more, deeper, BETTER. I can remember literally crying and pounding on the table, “I know these teachers didn’t mean to give us error. They taught what THEY had been TAUGHT, but didn’t ANYBODY READ THE BOOK?!?!?” It mattered to me then. It mattered to me as a teenager. It matters now as I teach bible classes. It didn’t have to be so hard as I watched so many give up and lay God’s great plan and gift of salvation aside as being “impossible.” Then, a friend sent me a link to Come And Reason’s website. I grew excited. YES! FINALLY! Then another friend told me to stay away, saying her son had just broken up with a girl because she was involved with Come And Reason and that “Tim Jennings preaches a false gospel.” But, AFTER many years of developing an authentic and, dare I say FUN relationship with Jesus, through the Holy Spirit I see this message has been around a LONG time, since the apostle Paul, Ellen White, Graham Maxwell, Ray Foucher, and yourself (though I admit, you’ve made me back up, rewind and replay the clips, and get out my well-worn Bible on a few things.) I’m so thankful I have found LIGHT during these DARK days. I am not alone.

Vicki DiNitto

Testimony 62

I would like to express my thanks to the C&R team for creating a platform from which people can learn to trust in God and grow. My life is a witness to the effectiveness of this ministry. Without believing the truth about God as you have shown, I don’t know what my life would be like. I had given up on God helping me with certain sins – it was all useless. Given that the scripture is clear and God is so good, how could I have betrayed him so many times? I was a yo-yo christian; spinning up and down. My faith and enthusiasm was driven by discoveries/threats that prophecy is about to be fulfilled. But when I watched your “Healing the Mind” seminar, it was like a light finally went on. I could see God had no plan to hurt me, the danger came from sin, and that He is working to protect me and strengthen me. Thank you for allowing God to use you. The message God gave C&R saved my life!

Antony N. – Hobart, Australia

 

Testimony 23

I would just like to add my voice to the many people who, I believe, must have contacted you to express their appreciation for the “Healing the Mind” DVDs. I’ve been listening to your Bible study class discussions for many years and I’ve been personally blessed by your research and teaching about the character of God.

L. G., Oakland, MI, USA

 

Testimony 59

I’m a native Ghanan, but am currently in France for my master’s degree. Prior to this, during my final years at undergraduate studies in Ghana, I was introduced to your ministry and I’ve been immensely blessed by what you share, especially about the Design and Imposed Laws. God richly bless you for that.

One of the first things I did when I arrived in France was to buy all four of your books. They not only helped me, but those I shared them with. I shared the message with an atheist student and I marveled at how God worked mightily in his life. Today this person shares the Love of God with others and debunks theories of who God is not. I want to share what you present in your “Heavenly Sanctuary and Investigative Judgment” pamphlet, because the message brought rest to my soul and I live today as a healthy person.

God bless you so much and your ministry.

Michael A., Ghana

 

Testimony 31

It was very touching to hear the testimony of your class share how viewing God’s true character has changed their lives. My feelings are the same – there is so much freedom in knowing that God LOVES me – regardless of my… just, REGARDLESS! I’m still blown away by the true gospel, the fact that God is not ready to strike us when we fail. He is not arbitrary. He simply loves us and warns of the natural consequences because He can’t stand to see us suffer. I AM IN LOVE WITH THIS GOD!!!

Ceil V.,  UT, USA

 

Testimony 34

I was introduced to Come and Reason Ministries by accident, via a passing comment made in a bible study class we were visiting. I checked this website out and my life was changed. The understanding of the truth of God’s character, and how we apply it, is so right. The tricky part is consistently applying which “lens” to look through. As I began to understand, I started sharing the basics of this understanding with a discussion group I was leading and, suddenly, a lot of things started to make sense that never used to. At the same time, I enjoyed an amazing opportunity. I was able to conduct a full bible study at WORK! What an amazing experience! It is such a joy to share the truth about God and to share how it all fits in the war between God and Satan. So many people benefit when we have a correct understanding about how God works and who He really is! Thank you for this transformational understanding. Keep up the good work! God Bless you!

Tony P., CA, USA

 

Testimony 72

I am blown away by the truth that you present. God’s Design Law makes so much sense! You have validated my impression that, if God is love, He would not kill those who don’t want to know him. If God gives us choice, then how can He destroy us if our choice is not to follow him. Thank you for opening my eyes and heart to the pure love of God seen through Jesus. The love I now have for Jesus is deeper and free from condemnation. My heart has been opened to love others as Jesus loves me. May God continue to bless your God-given insight into His word and your ministry. The truth has set me free!

H. Miller, Centereach, NY

Testimony 40

I was brought up in a different faith and have been petrified my whole life of God. I believed that I would burn in hell for eternity. When I was 12 I started pursuing the things of this world, but for the next 45 years the Spirit was always calling me, as I knew there was a God through nature. I could see the vast sea of stars in the universe and knew there was something bigger out there. Five years ago, through a Revelation seminar, I was blessed to learn about God’s character and government.

Then I found Come and Reason Ministries and have come under some extreme pressure when I speak about the ministry. One time a member sent me an internet article titled “Whats wrong with Tim Jennings?” I asked her what she thought of it and she said “I don’t know, I didn’t read it.”

I have always wanted to find out for myself the truth about God, so I stayed with the Design Law construct and have been liberated to understand the big picture. Once we consider Design Law, all other Bible stories and prophecies seem to fit perfectly. It is truly beautiful to see people grasping how God operates this Universe of Love and the liberation it has provided in their lives. It blows my mind to see how consistent Design law is with what our founders believed. I hear statements like “This makes so much sense.”

Tom W., Mt. Pleasant, MI, USA

 

Testimony 57

You have helped make sense of thirty two years of confusion. The material you freely provide reorganized so much of my life into such a beautiful pattern that has always been hinted at from within, but misguided with my training and what I was experiencing externally. My filipno parents, who were converted from Catholicism to SDA, were sincere and did their best to raise me the right way and I have deep respect for them. However, being immigrants and not understanding the language made for a difficult transition as I was growing up, which also applied to my spiritual growth as I learned the patterns of religion. I have been listening to as many bible study classes and reading blog posts as my time in a work truck will allow, searching for the practical applications of where spirituality and reality meet, and I thank you for helping me find that. You have helped me reach a point in which I can truly say that I love God, that I believe He loves me, and, like David, I delight in His law. God bless.

Emmanuel V., Calgary, AB Canada