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Victorious Living – Now or Then?

Victorious Living – Now or Then?

I am in tune with the trust and healing model of atonement and posted this on-line:

“Those who believe on Christ and obey His commandments are not under bondage to God’s law; for to those who believe and obey, His law is not a law of bondage, but of liberty.

Everyone who believes on Christ, everyone who relies on the keeping power of a risen Saviour that has suffered the penalty pronounced upon the transgressor, everyone who resists temptation and in the midst of evil copies the pattern given in the Christ life, will through faith in the atoning sacrifice of Christ become a partaker of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. Everyone who by faith obeys God’s commandments will reach the condition of…..(((((SINLESSNESS )))))))…… in which Adam lived before his transgression. {HP 146.5}

Someone countered with:

As we have CLEARER views of Christ’s spotless and infinite purity, we shall feel as did Daniel, when he beheld the glory of the Lord, and said, “My comeliness was turned in me into corruption.” We CANNOT say, “I am sinless,” TILL this vile body is CHANGED and fashioned like unto His glorious body. But if we constantly seek to follow Jesus, the blessed HOPE is ours of standing before the throne of God without spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; complete in Christ, robed in his righteousness and perfection.” ST, March 23, 1888 par. 13

What do you think of the above? What is your present position? Do you believe from Bible…that any authentic/consecrated Christians can/will stop sinning before 2nd coming? I am not speaking of clerical mistakes or whatever.

J


Wow, what a question – one I have heard hotly debated by Christians my entire life. Do the saved live victoriously over sin before Christ comes or do they live in continual sinful living right up to the moment He appears in the clouds?

It is clear from scripture that this mortal doesn’t put on immortality or this corruption incorruption until Christ comes again (1Cor 15:53,54). We will not live in the fully glorified state Adam had prior to the fall until Christ appears and transforms us. So, sinlessness in the first passage cannot be referring to living free from the effect sin has had on nature (Romans 8:22). We will still suffer with aches, pains, disease, bad hearing, poor eyesight, etc. until Christ comes and heals our bodies fully. This would mean our brains will not be fully restored to God’s original ideal until the second coming. Therefore persons with Alzheimer’s, stroke, schizophrenia, OCD, ADHD etc. will still have brains with biological problems interfering with perfect function. We will not be in the perfect physical state Adam was until Christ appears in the clouds and clothes us with immortality. So sinless living doesn’t mean living without the impact of sin on our lives. This may also give insight into the second paragraph as we see ever more clearly God’s design for humanity we see how devastated we are physically from sin’s assault upon this creation.

But ultimately the passages are not merely about the physical impact of sin on creation. They are about character, heart, mind, the true identity and individuality of a person. Will Christians experience a transformation of character so they are actually like Christ in heart/mind/attitude and life prior to His coming? Or will they continue to live with hearts/minds/attitudes and lives that are sinful and like the unconverted?

The Scripture teaches a clear expectation of victorious living:

What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?  By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? Romans 6:1,2

The Messiah came to save us from our sins, not in our sins:

She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins. MT 1:21

So how do we bring balance? As I understand it the sin problem is a problem of the heart and mind which manifests in our behavior and lives. Thus the acts of sin are the symptoms of sinful hearts. Jesus said in Matthew five that the real problem in adultery is not merely the behavior but the lust in the heart that leads to the behavior. Therefore, in the New Covenant God puts His law in our hearts and minds. We are recreated internally, in our thinking, heart desires, motives to be like Christ! This recreation of heart and mind happens before Christ returns. Without such recreation prior to His return we would not rejoice to see Him. In fact, those who don’t experience such renewal run and hide from Him because they don’t love and trust Him.

And what is the ultimate root transformation that takes place in the heart? The fear based, selfish, survival of the fittest, watch out for me instinct, which all humans are born with since Adam’s fall, is replaced with perfect other centered love. This is a supernatural work of the Holy Spirit applying Christ’s achievements to our hearts and minds. This happens before Christ returns for those ready to meet Him are described in these words:

They did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death. Rev 12:11

Notice they no longer seek to save self, or are self-centered, or selfish but instead are willing to lay down their lives that others might live!

We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death…This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. 1Jn3:14,16

Those who are ready to meet Jesus will, prior to His return, experience such a close relationship with Him that His love will free them from fear for self. They will love God and others more than themselves and will no longer seek to exploit others to protect self, but rather they will give their lives for others. Yet as they come closer and closer to Christ they recognize more acutely the difference between their natural heart and His purity and even though they feel unworthy of His goodness and grace are simultaneously changed to be just like Him.

Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. 1Jn 3:2

What an awesome day that will be! Let’s keep our eyes fixed on Jesus the author and perfecter of our faith!

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Testimony 56

I cannot thank you enough for opening my understanding to the beautiful truth of God’s Law of Love and how it applies to everything. I have been a Christian for over forty years, but I feel like I am only now seeing with my eyes open. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!!

Tammy Cinzio, Australia

 

Testimony 37

Hearing Dr. Jennings’ presentations in person came at a pivotal moment in my spiritual journey that began about nine months ago, when the fault lines inherent in my belief system began to crack under questions that most reasonable people end up asking about God and His nature. These were questions I couldn’t find answers to, and they shook my faith. I was unable let it go any longer and be satisfied. My Christian experience became distant. I was afraid; the fear in me rose like thorns, pushing me away from Jesus. And then someone heard my questions and introduced me to this ministry, and my life has totally changed.

I can tell you that this new, “present truth” message is far grander and life-changing than when I shifted from being an agnostic and then a nominal Christian. It has radically altered my worldview, because it reveals a God that makes sense. It is a revolution. I believe that Dr. Jennings’ message is the final message that must go to the world. If any message could be called “righteousness by faith,” as abused as that term is by the right and the left, this is that message, because Jennings’ biblical message identifies a God who is different, whose character isn’t an impossible contradiction.

I walk this path now without fear. I see people differently, and the Holy Spirit burns in my heart. Many call Dr. Jennings’ message false and compromising, but it isn’t false, because I’ve seen the fruits within my mind and body. It is not compromising, because in this message is the only road to holiness that makes any sense. No longer do I behold a pagan god who is always angry and suspicious. Instead, I behold a God who is freeing and loving, always working for our good, and giving me every reason to love my enemy even to my own death, just as Jesus pleads with us. God is good.

Anthony L., CA, USA

 

Testimony 10

I personally download and listen to each of Come And Reason Ministries Bible study class lessons and PDF study notes to use when teaching my class. Really appreciate the class especially when Dr. Jennings is teaching. Thank God there are persons like him doing His work and traveling to share His beliefs.

B. L.M., North Plains, OR, USA

 

Testimony 29

Thank you for all of your work to correct misconceptions about God’s character. So many people that my husband and I have talked to seem to be against the natural law construct and view it as “errant” and “dangerous.” Having learned more about it through your blogs and lessons, I don’t really understand why they view it that way, except that it means they have to relearn theology they have known for their entire lives. But I’m so excited to relearn this. For the past few years I have been questioning how I could trust a God who punishes arbitrarily and is full of wrath for those who don’t obey His commands. That view made me afraid to “mess up” or “not be good enough,” even within my relationship with God. I really appreciated the point you bring out about God not wanting us to serve Him because we are afraid, but because we love Him.

Melissa H., IN, USA

 

Testimony 67

I was introduced to Come And Reason by a friend of my mother-in-law, who gave me several CD’s of Dr. Jennings. The clarity of the message and recognition that God’s is a God of love was so clear, advancing beyond Dr. Maxwell’s message. However, grappled with Maxwell saying God used emergency measures for the fallen world. Now after several years of being a regular listener of the Come And Reasoning bible study class and attending Jennings’ meetings in Dallas/Fort Worth, TX, things are becoming clearer for me. Design law versus imposed law has added so much to my personal understanding of theology. This message has really impacted my work in counseling so many people miserable because they are searching for and trusting human governments to create order and peace or believing in a God who says love Me or I will kill you. I am grateful that I have an alternative view to offer my clients that makes sense. I teach a bible study class on a semi-regular basis and I value the materials that Come And Reason so freely offers to aid me in presenting this vital message. Thank you for continuing to provide advancement in our very limited understanding of a Infinite God that is rational and believable.

Dr. Roger D, Arlington, TX, USA

 

Testimony 21

I am absolutly on fire with the message at Come and Reason! I can’t get enough! I’ve read your book, blog, and articles. I’ve listened to your Bible study podcasts, your radio show, and your series – all excellent! It wasn’t until the past couple of years that I have I like I’m becoming “healthy,” with more to share with others than just beasts and commandments! I used to be a Bible worker and preached when the pastors were gone until I had had enough. I didnt realize at the time what the problem was, but i know now… the message wasn’t properly focused. Now my flame is rekindled. All of your little examples are so perfect in explaining something “complicated” and making it easily understood! Now I’m trying to shape it into a life changing evangelistic series! Thank you!

M.T., USA

 

Testimony 34

I was introduced to Come and Reason Ministries by accident, via a passing comment made in a bible study class we were visiting. I checked this website out and my life was changed. The understanding of the truth of God’s character, and how we apply it, is so right. The tricky part is consistently applying which “lens” to look through. As I began to understand, I started sharing the basics of this understanding with a discussion group I was leading and, suddenly, a lot of things started to make sense that never used to. At the same time, I enjoyed an amazing opportunity. I was able to conduct a full bible study at WORK! What an amazing experience! It is such a joy to share the truth about God and to share how it all fits in the war between God and Satan. So many people benefit when we have a correct understanding about how God works and who He really is! Thank you for this transformational understanding. Keep up the good work! God Bless you!

Tony P., CA, USA

 

Testimony 60

Just watched watched lesson 10 in the 1st quarter 2021 bible study classs on Isaiah. I want to thank you for your intellectual spirituality; it’s not an oxymoron! From the point of view of a teacher I also enjoy seeing how much personal pleasure you clearly take in not just tasting, but feasting on God’s word – it reminds me of Jeremiah not being able to hold it in! It makes me smile that your cup is so full and overflowing that you make it to Tuesday’s lesson (on a good day). It just goes to show the richness of God’s Word.

God bless the Come and Reason Team from our church here in Great Britain.

Andrew H., Great Britain

 

Testimony 40

I was brought up in a different faith and have been petrified my whole life of God. I believed that I would burn in hell for eternity. When I was 12 I started pursuing the things of this world, but for the next 45 years the Spirit was always calling me, as I knew there was a God through nature. I could see the vast sea of stars in the universe and knew there was something bigger out there. Five years ago, through a Revelation seminar, I was blessed to learn about God’s character and government.

Then I found Come and Reason Ministries and have come under some extreme pressure when I speak about the ministry. One time a member sent me an internet article titled “Whats wrong with Tim Jennings?” I asked her what she thought of it and she said “I don’t know, I didn’t read it.”

I have always wanted to find out for myself the truth about God, so I stayed with the Design Law construct and have been liberated to understand the big picture. Once we consider Design Law, all other Bible stories and prophecies seem to fit perfectly. It is truly beautiful to see people grasping how God operates this Universe of Love and the liberation it has provided in their lives. It blows my mind to see how consistent Design law is with what our founders believed. I hear statements like “This makes so much sense.”

Tom W., Mt. Pleasant, MI, USA

 

Testimony 19

I truly believe that to know who God really is the first step to understand ourselves in a balanced and kind way, so the healing can take place. Your approach really makes sense – Thank you for your ministry!

A.M., Pittsburg, PA, USA

Testimony 41

I have been blessed by your ministry. I have experienced personally, and deeply resonate with, the God of love and the beautiful picture of God’s character that you present. I have seen your seminar series on YouTube, read ‘The Journal of the Watcher’ book, used your mobile app, and also listen/study the bible study lesson with you each week. I concur with many of the thoughts and perspectives that you share. I understand your conclusions on natural laws vs imposed law and the legal/penal substitution (incorrect diagnosis). This makes perfect sense to me.

Bless you for all you do.

Melissa L.

 

Testimony 5

We listen to your bible studies lessons in our class in Montana. You actually were the main reason I decided to get a laptop, so I can go to your site and listen, read, learn, and print the class notes. I am so grateful to learn the correct view of God and his character. Now, to just have others have an interest in knowing, so I can share it with them. Good thoughts your way.

R. N., MT, USA

 

Testimony 57

You have helped make sense of thirty two years of confusion. The material you freely provide reorganized so much of my life into such a beautiful pattern that has always been hinted at from within, but misguided with my training and what I was experiencing externally. My filipno parents, who were converted from Catholicism to SDA, were sincere and did their best to raise me the right way and I have deep respect for them. However, being immigrants and not understanding the language made for a difficult transition as I was growing up, which also applied to my spiritual growth as I learned the patterns of religion. I have been listening to as many bible study classes and reading blog posts as my time in a work truck will allow, searching for the practical applications of where spirituality and reality meet, and I thank you for helping me find that. You have helped me reach a point in which I can truly say that I love God, that I believe He loves me, and, like David, I delight in His law. God bless.

Emmanuel V., Calgary, AB Canada

Testimony 27

Your teachings about our heavenly Father have changed my life. Thank you sooooooo very very much! I know He’s doing some serious healing in my heart and life and I look forward to each new day to learn something new about Him and to just hear you speak about Him. Thank you, forever.

Nancy S.

 

Testimony 66

I am incredibly grateful for the transformative impact you’ve had on my life, and words cannot fully express my appreciation. Over the years, I have been an avid listener and follower of C&R and extend my heartfelt thanks for creating the C&R mobile app. It has allowed me to immerse myself in your lessons repeatedly, enabling me to grasp the profound significance about the Character of God, Design Law, the protocols for life, the reasons behind the current chaos, and Christ’s mission to restore everything. They have deeply touched me. Having studied with various churches, I came away with the perception that God is no different from the deities of ancient Greek or Roman mythology—demanding sacrifices and taking pleasure in bloodshed. Thanks to your transformative teachings, I have experienced a profound awakening to the true nature of God and the immense power of His love. It is truly a remarkable and liberating sensation to finally grasp the truth and embrace the empowering nature of God’s laws. My self-perception has become brighter and more infused with love. My journey of growth continues on a daily basis.

Chris P., Lake Mary, FL, USA