Call Us: 423 661-4734 | Email: requests@comeandreason.com      
Victorious Living – Now or Then?

Victorious Living – Now or Then?

I am in tune with the trust and healing model of atonement and posted this on-line:

“Those who believe on Christ and obey His commandments are not under bondage to God’s law; for to those who believe and obey, His law is not a law of bondage, but of liberty.

Everyone who believes on Christ, everyone who relies on the keeping power of a risen Saviour that has suffered the penalty pronounced upon the transgressor, everyone who resists temptation and in the midst of evil copies the pattern given in the Christ life, will through faith in the atoning sacrifice of Christ become a partaker of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. Everyone who by faith obeys God’s commandments will reach the condition of…..(((((SINLESSNESS )))))))…… in which Adam lived before his transgression. {HP 146.5}

Someone countered with:

As we have CLEARER views of Christ’s spotless and infinite purity, we shall feel as did Daniel, when he beheld the glory of the Lord, and said, “My comeliness was turned in me into corruption.” We CANNOT say, “I am sinless,” TILL this vile body is CHANGED and fashioned like unto His glorious body. But if we constantly seek to follow Jesus, the blessed HOPE is ours of standing before the throne of God without spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; complete in Christ, robed in his righteousness and perfection.” ST, March 23, 1888 par. 13

What do you think of the above? What is your present position? Do you believe from Bible…that any authentic/consecrated Christians can/will stop sinning before 2nd coming? I am not speaking of clerical mistakes or whatever.

J


Wow, what a question – one I have heard hotly debated by Christians my entire life. Do the saved live victoriously over sin before Christ comes or do they live in continual sinful living right up to the moment He appears in the clouds?

It is clear from scripture that this mortal doesn’t put on immortality or this corruption incorruption until Christ comes again (1Cor 15:53,54). We will not live in the fully glorified state Adam had prior to the fall until Christ appears and transforms us. So, sinlessness in the first passage cannot be referring to living free from the effect sin has had on nature (Romans 8:22). We will still suffer with aches, pains, disease, bad hearing, poor eyesight, etc. until Christ comes and heals our bodies fully. This would mean our brains will not be fully restored to God’s original ideal until the second coming. Therefore persons with Alzheimer’s, stroke, schizophrenia, OCD, ADHD etc. will still have brains with biological problems interfering with perfect function. We will not be in the perfect physical state Adam was until Christ appears in the clouds and clothes us with immortality. So sinless living doesn’t mean living without the impact of sin on our lives. This may also give insight into the second paragraph as we see ever more clearly God’s design for humanity we see how devastated we are physically from sin’s assault upon this creation.

But ultimately the passages are not merely about the physical impact of sin on creation. They are about character, heart, mind, the true identity and individuality of a person. Will Christians experience a transformation of character so they are actually like Christ in heart/mind/attitude and life prior to His coming? Or will they continue to live with hearts/minds/attitudes and lives that are sinful and like the unconverted?

The Scripture teaches a clear expectation of victorious living:

What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?  By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? Romans 6:1,2

The Messiah came to save us from our sins, not in our sins:

She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins. MT 1:21

So how do we bring balance? As I understand it the sin problem is a problem of the heart and mind which manifests in our behavior and lives. Thus the acts of sin are the symptoms of sinful hearts. Jesus said in Matthew five that the real problem in adultery is not merely the behavior but the lust in the heart that leads to the behavior. Therefore, in the New Covenant God puts His law in our hearts and minds. We are recreated internally, in our thinking, heart desires, motives to be like Christ! This recreation of heart and mind happens before Christ returns. Without such recreation prior to His return we would not rejoice to see Him. In fact, those who don’t experience such renewal run and hide from Him because they don’t love and trust Him.

And what is the ultimate root transformation that takes place in the heart? The fear based, selfish, survival of the fittest, watch out for me instinct, which all humans are born with since Adam’s fall, is replaced with perfect other centered love. This is a supernatural work of the Holy Spirit applying Christ’s achievements to our hearts and minds. This happens before Christ returns for those ready to meet Him are described in these words:

They did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death. Rev 12:11

Notice they no longer seek to save self, or are self-centered, or selfish but instead are willing to lay down their lives that others might live!

We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death…This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. 1Jn3:14,16

Those who are ready to meet Jesus will, prior to His return, experience such a close relationship with Him that His love will free them from fear for self. They will love God and others more than themselves and will no longer seek to exploit others to protect self, but rather they will give their lives for others. Yet as they come closer and closer to Christ they recognize more acutely the difference between their natural heart and His purity and even though they feel unworthy of His goodness and grace are simultaneously changed to be just like Him.

Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. 1Jn 3:2

What an awesome day that will be! Let’s keep our eyes fixed on Jesus the author and perfecter of our faith!

Email me the blog whenever a new one is published.

Donate online, securely via PayPal using your credit or debit card (no PayPal account needed, unless you want to set up a monthly, recurring payment).


cancel recurring payment

 

Want to use zelle instead?
See how on our
Support and Donations page.

Upcoming Events

calendar

Testimonial Post Slider

Testimony 50

After coming into contact with Come And Reason Ministries, I can finally say that many of my unanswered questions have fallen into place. I discovered that my view of God’s Law was “imposed laws and rules” with “imposed punishments” and that this was the major culprit of my many unanswered questions. Thanks be to God for using you and those around you to help us who have struggled with this “infection” of thought. I have now rejected the “imposed law” concept to fully embrace “Design Law”… to look thru “Design Law,” instead of “imposed law,” is a relief.

Viliami L., Australia

 

Testimony 7

Ok, so last night I listened to “The Law of Liberty” and “How to Achieve Victory: Freedom, Truth and Spirtual Warfare.” These are both MY ABSOLUTE FAVORITES so far! The logic is just soooooo beautiful. I had to re-listen to them a couple of times. I just want to EXPLODE! (<< we assume with joy and happiness)

N. B., Canada

 

Testimony 54

I had a lot of pressure, as a pastor’s kid, to conform and be “good.” I was good at being “good.” I thought my life was going along well until it all started falling apart and I could not figure out why! In my search for “why is this happening to me, God?” I came across your book, “Could it be this Simple,” and God started revealing to me the many distortions I held about His character, His principles, and how He has designed His universe to operate. I remember thinking, “Wow, I have had this all backwards.” I was happy and angry all at the same time. Happy to have the light of truth break through the darkness, revealing a wonderful, beautiful way of understanding God and His plan for His children, and angry, because I felt deceived and cheated by the church, my family, and myself!

My heart thrills when I listen to your bible study lessons. Literally I have gone from death to life. It is a journey I look forward to every day, as God reveals areas this distortion affects. Praise GOD! I will ever be grateful to God for this ministry and your cooperation with the Spirit!

Karen S., Portal, AZ, USA

 

Testimony 25

I just want to say thank you so much for your conversations via YouTube. I regularly tune in to your lectures, “Let’s Talk” sessions, and many others. Through these I’ve found greater depth and meaning to God’s word. Thanks for all that you do and please continue. I’m currently working in the middle of Silicon Valley at Stanford University. I feel like God really has me in the right place right now and I’m sensing that your teachings might be part of it.

B. F., Silicon Valley, CA, USA

 

Testimony 21

I am absolutly on fire with the message at Come and Reason! I can’t get enough! I’ve read your book, blog, and articles. I’ve listened to your Bible study podcasts, your radio show, and your series – all excellent! It wasn’t until the past couple of years that I have I like I’m becoming “healthy,” with more to share with others than just beasts and commandments! I used to be a Bible worker and preached when the pastors were gone until I had had enough. I didnt realize at the time what the problem was, but i know now… the message wasn’t properly focused. Now my flame is rekindled. All of your little examples are so perfect in explaining something “complicated” and making it easily understood! Now I’m trying to shape it into a life changing evangelistic series! Thank you!

M.T., USA

 

Testimony 71

When I was 9 years old, I remember setting at our devotional table with a hunger and thirst for God that wanted more, deeper, BETTER. I can remember literally crying and pounding on the table, “I know these teachers didn’t mean to give us error. They taught what THEY had been TAUGHT, but didn’t ANYBODY READ THE BOOK?!?!?” It mattered to me then. It mattered to me as a teenager. It matters now as I teach bible classes. It didn’t have to be so hard as I watched so many give up and lay God’s great plan and gift of salvation aside as being “impossible.” Then, a friend sent me a link to Come And Reason’s website. I grew excited. YES! FINALLY! Then another friend told me to stay away, saying her son had just broken up with a girl because she was involved with Come And Reason and that “Tim Jennings preaches a false gospel.” But, AFTER many years of developing an authentic and, dare I say FUN relationship with Jesus, through the Holy Spirit I see this message has been around a LONG time, since the apostle Paul, Ellen White, Graham Maxwell, Ray Foucher, and yourself (though I admit, you’ve made me back up, rewind and replay the clips, and get out my well-worn Bible on a few things.) I’m so thankful I have found LIGHT during these DARK days. I am not alone.

Vicki DiNitto

Testimony 2

I continue to enjoy your lessons every week. The more that I research your conclusions, the more I am convinced that the Holy Spirit has lead you to distill out the essence of human redemption. Thank you for your courageous stand for the truth.

S. G., TX, USA

 

Testimony 56

I cannot thank you enough for opening my understanding to the beautiful truth of God’s Law of Love and how it applies to everything. I have been a Christian for over forty years, but I feel like I am only now seeing with my eyes open. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!!

Tammy Cinzio, Australia

 

Testimony 66

I am incredibly grateful for the transformative impact you’ve had on my life, and words cannot fully express my appreciation. Over the years, I have been an avid listener and follower of C&R and extend my heartfelt thanks for creating the C&R mobile app. It has allowed me to immerse myself in your lessons repeatedly, enabling me to grasp the profound significance about the Character of God, Design Law, the protocols for life, the reasons behind the current chaos, and Christ’s mission to restore everything. They have deeply touched me. Having studied with various churches, I came away with the perception that God is no different from the deities of ancient Greek or Roman mythology—demanding sacrifices and taking pleasure in bloodshed. Thanks to your transformative teachings, I have experienced a profound awakening to the true nature of God and the immense power of His love. It is truly a remarkable and liberating sensation to finally grasp the truth and embrace the empowering nature of God’s laws. My self-perception has become brighter and more infused with love. My journey of growth continues on a daily basis.

Chris P., Lake Mary, FL, USA

 

Testimony 60

Just watched watched lesson 10 in the 1st quarter 2021 bible study classs on Isaiah. I want to thank you for your intellectual spirituality; it’s not an oxymoron! From the point of view of a teacher I also enjoy seeing how much personal pleasure you clearly take in not just tasting, but feasting on God’s word – it reminds me of Jeremiah not being able to hold it in! It makes me smile that your cup is so full and overflowing that you make it to Tuesday’s lesson (on a good day). It just goes to show the richness of God’s Word.

God bless the Come and Reason Team from our church here in Great Britain.

Andrew H., Great Britain

 

Testimony 15

I have been sharing Come And Reason Ministries Bible study lessons with several folk. You have such a beautiful view of the plan of salvation. If we had this message preached when I was young, my generation would still all be in church.

H. R., New Zealand

Testimony 20

I just wanted to personally thank you for your teachings and insight into scripture. I came across your website via my cousin who suggested I look into “Healing the Mind” information. My youngest daughter has been struggling over the last couple of years and it all came to a head this spring. When I started listening to the “Healing the Mind” lectures my own life began to be transformed. I began sharing with all my daughters the concepts you laid out so clearly. I ordered your book and soaked it up. I just want to say “Thank You!” My walk with the Lord has been refreshed and renewed. Your obedience to the Lord is a blessing to so many.

R. K., Anderson, SC, USA

 

Testimony 4

I’m a youth leader in South Africa. We as a youth group are currently using a lot of the material on the Come and Reason site. Since we’ve started using the material, our youth group has grown.

R. V. N., South Africa

 

Testimony 35

I am so pleased with the response your message is receiving at my church from the middle-aged to the young adults. I have given out 100 copies of the first two seminars and there are more request every week. One of my [class members] came to me after viewing the series, grateful and impressed with how easy the message was retained. He had been a Seventh-day Adventist in fear all his life, and felt like the scales were removed from his eyes after viewing the seminars. I am so impressed by the change I see in members who have received this message, we are in one accord. However, I am sadden by the negative response of the older people. I am verbally attacked anytime I talk about imposed laws, but I believe my mission is to enlightened everyone I can. I watch your Bible Study Class on YouTube every Friday night and I feel like I am apart of the class. All of you are in one accord and I am so blessed to have found you. I pray that all of you continue to spread this message and I am committed to doing my part.

Clara S., Westfield, MA, USA

 

Testimony 42

I am just writing to say that I have been so blessed by the teachings of Come And Reason Minitries recently. I watched last week’s bible study lesson on Youtube and am thankful that the error in the printed lesson guide you use was pointed out and this week’s study was of equal benefit, if not more so. My understanding of God’s nature has been very confused of late and I am so grateful for clarity in this matter. I have never really fully understood previously how a good God can cause bad things to happen and now I realise that He doesn’t, it’s a natural consequence of sin. May the almighty Father and His Son, our Saviour Jesus Christ, continue to bless your ministry.

Laura P., United Kingdom