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Victorious Living – Now or Then?

Victorious Living – Now or Then?

I am in tune with the trust and healing model of atonement and posted this on-line:

“Those who believe on Christ and obey His commandments are not under bondage to God’s law; for to those who believe and obey, His law is not a law of bondage, but of liberty.

Everyone who believes on Christ, everyone who relies on the keeping power of a risen Saviour that has suffered the penalty pronounced upon the transgressor, everyone who resists temptation and in the midst of evil copies the pattern given in the Christ life, will through faith in the atoning sacrifice of Christ become a partaker of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. Everyone who by faith obeys God’s commandments will reach the condition of…..(((((SINLESSNESS )))))))…… in which Adam lived before his transgression. {HP 146.5}

Someone countered with:

As we have CLEARER views of Christ’s spotless and infinite purity, we shall feel as did Daniel, when he beheld the glory of the Lord, and said, “My comeliness was turned in me into corruption.” We CANNOT say, “I am sinless,” TILL this vile body is CHANGED and fashioned like unto His glorious body. But if we constantly seek to follow Jesus, the blessed HOPE is ours of standing before the throne of God without spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; complete in Christ, robed in his righteousness and perfection.” ST, March 23, 1888 par. 13

What do you think of the above? What is your present position? Do you believe from Bible…that any authentic/consecrated Christians can/will stop sinning before 2nd coming? I am not speaking of clerical mistakes or whatever.

J


Wow, what a question – one I have heard hotly debated by Christians my entire life. Do the saved live victoriously over sin before Christ comes or do they live in continual sinful living right up to the moment He appears in the clouds?

It is clear from scripture that this mortal doesn’t put on immortality or this corruption incorruption until Christ comes again (1Cor 15:53,54). We will not live in the fully glorified state Adam had prior to the fall until Christ appears and transforms us. So, sinlessness in the first passage cannot be referring to living free from the effect sin has had on nature (Romans 8:22). We will still suffer with aches, pains, disease, bad hearing, poor eyesight, etc. until Christ comes and heals our bodies fully. This would mean our brains will not be fully restored to God’s original ideal until the second coming. Therefore persons with Alzheimer’s, stroke, schizophrenia, OCD, ADHD etc. will still have brains with biological problems interfering with perfect function. We will not be in the perfect physical state Adam was until Christ appears in the clouds and clothes us with immortality. So sinless living doesn’t mean living without the impact of sin on our lives. This may also give insight into the second paragraph as we see ever more clearly God’s design for humanity we see how devastated we are physically from sin’s assault upon this creation.

But ultimately the passages are not merely about the physical impact of sin on creation. They are about character, heart, mind, the true identity and individuality of a person. Will Christians experience a transformation of character so they are actually like Christ in heart/mind/attitude and life prior to His coming? Or will they continue to live with hearts/minds/attitudes and lives that are sinful and like the unconverted?

The Scripture teaches a clear expectation of victorious living:

What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?  By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? Romans 6:1,2

The Messiah came to save us from our sins, not in our sins:

She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins. MT 1:21

So how do we bring balance? As I understand it the sin problem is a problem of the heart and mind which manifests in our behavior and lives. Thus the acts of sin are the symptoms of sinful hearts. Jesus said in Matthew five that the real problem in adultery is not merely the behavior but the lust in the heart that leads to the behavior. Therefore, in the New Covenant God puts His law in our hearts and minds. We are recreated internally, in our thinking, heart desires, motives to be like Christ! This recreation of heart and mind happens before Christ returns. Without such recreation prior to His return we would not rejoice to see Him. In fact, those who don’t experience such renewal run and hide from Him because they don’t love and trust Him.

And what is the ultimate root transformation that takes place in the heart? The fear based, selfish, survival of the fittest, watch out for me instinct, which all humans are born with since Adam’s fall, is replaced with perfect other centered love. This is a supernatural work of the Holy Spirit applying Christ’s achievements to our hearts and minds. This happens before Christ returns for those ready to meet Him are described in these words:

They did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death. Rev 12:11

Notice they no longer seek to save self, or are self-centered, or selfish but instead are willing to lay down their lives that others might live!

We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death…This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. 1Jn3:14,16

Those who are ready to meet Jesus will, prior to His return, experience such a close relationship with Him that His love will free them from fear for self. They will love God and others more than themselves and will no longer seek to exploit others to protect self, but rather they will give their lives for others. Yet as they come closer and closer to Christ they recognize more acutely the difference between their natural heart and His purity and even though they feel unworthy of His goodness and grace are simultaneously changed to be just like Him.

Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. 1Jn 3:2

What an awesome day that will be! Let’s keep our eyes fixed on Jesus the author and perfecter of our faith!

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Testimony 46

Over the past couple of years God has been expanding my view of Himself and His character. Along my approximately 40-year journey, I have often had questions, but was hesitant to voice these and step outside the traditionally accepted thinking, for fear of admitting that I may in fact be eternally lost. In the recesses of my thinking has been the thought – if one blindly accepts (which is widely regarded as “real faith”) and does not question, is this really ‘truth?’ I often find it challenging to grapple with very theological ‘speak,’ but Dr. Jennings has a real gift of explaining spiritual concepts with clear practical examples. The weekly discussions are growing my Christian experience and slowly changing my view of how to live as a child of God in today’s complex world. Finally the whole Old Testament sanctuary teaching moved in my mind from fantasy to reality!

Beverly S., South Africa

 

Testimony 58

I have been watching your videos in The Power of Love seminar and I must say these have liberated me and have improved my relationship with the Lord. I am no longer terrified of him as I was before following your teachings.

Thando N., South Africa

 

Testimony 8

Thank you for the ministry you are sharing with us, it is a real blessing to us and especially to my husband and myself! You are encouraging us to think for ourselves and not just to except everything, without thinking it through, with God’s word!

M.K., USA

 

Testimony 33

I was invited over a friend’s house to see the “God and Your Brain” seminar today. I became [a christian] 36 years ago at the age of 19, but have struggled with the concept of God taking His ‘pound of flesh’ out on His Son to be appeased. Wow. Your seminar has been an incredible revelation and breath of reason and fresh air! I have your book, “The God Shaped Brain,” and it is SO eye opening. Finally, after 36 years enlightenment has come! Praise the Good Lord! What can I say, but that the Real Gospel is truly “Good News!” Thank you for your efforts in giving the Gospel a clear sound!

Paul C.,  Springfield, MA, USA

 

Testimony 67

I was introduced to Come And Reason by a friend of my mother-in-law, who gave me several CD’s of Dr. Jennings. The clarity of the message and recognition that God’s is a God of love was so clear, advancing beyond Dr. Maxwell’s message. However, grappled with Maxwell saying God used emergency measures for the fallen world. Now after several years of being a regular listener of the Come And Reasoning bible study class and attending Jennings’ meetings in Dallas/Fort Worth, TX, things are becoming clearer for me. Design law versus imposed law has added so much to my personal understanding of theology. This message has really impacted my work in counseling so many people miserable because they are searching for and trusting human governments to create order and peace or believing in a God who says love Me or I will kill you. I am grateful that I have an alternative view to offer my clients that makes sense. I teach a bible study class on a semi-regular basis and I value the materials that Come And Reason so freely offers to aid me in presenting this vital message. Thank you for continuing to provide advancement in our very limited understanding of a Infinite God that is rational and believable.

Dr. Roger D, Arlington, TX, USA

 

Testimony 12

I have been really blessed reading your response to the various questions on your site.

K.C., OH, USA

 

Testimony 64

I’ve been reading the bible and walking with Jesus since I was around 16. I’m 42 now. I’ve mostly been alone in my walk although I went to several churches in different denominations. For the past 3 years God has been showing me His character of agape. It’s been a blessing and changed how I view God and my walk with Jesus. About a year ago I came across the power of love and the principles of design law. These teachings changed how I read scripture and have been such a beautiful blessing. I’m very excited and grateful for these truths. We share these truths of agape, design law and the reality of the principles of the two trees in the garden of Eden with people on Facebook and YouTube. People all over are learning to trust God and His agape design law which makes life possible. Thank you for everything you shared with me. May God continue to bless your ministry and lives.

Bradley M., Hinsdale, NY, USA

 

Testimony 49

I came into the church at 21, but that is as far as it went. I was so confused about what love is. I couldn’t find it in the bible, because I am not a person that can read between the lines. I have no logic. I have read many, many books; trying to figure out the crux of the matter. They were helpful, but something was still missing. I have become very frustrated to the point of crying out to God, “Where can I go?”  I needed some basics.

I found two books, written by Timothy Jennings, MD, to be very helpful. God showed me that I had lived my whole life in fear. I didn’t even see it. Now, I do. God is so good.  I discovered the “The Remedy”  Dr. Jennings new book, “The God-Shaped Heart!” Oh, I was so excited, I purchased them right away.

I can get rid of most of my books, because “The Remedy” brings the Love of God out so clearly, even I can’t miss it. Now, I want to sit and read my Bible. Wow, what a revelation! It is just simply Awesome! I am so grateful to Jehovah Almighty for hearing my prayer for more understanding! I am so encouraged!

Jackie S.

 

Testimony 65

I have been tuning into your weekly study classes for a while now and wanted express my appreciation for the teachings that ha been a huge blessing in opening up the true message of the word. Viewing scripture under an imposed law theory always, without fail, raised more questions, concerns, and conflicting scripture interpretations that were discouraging at the very least. Looking at scripture through the design law lens has brought more truth to light for me personally and an understanding of our Heavenly Father that places Him “above all others,” where I am now more than thrilled to witness and serve Him.  I “stumbled” across this ministry a year or so ago and would only watch a few minutes at a time. But the more I listened and the longer I paid attention, the more my spiritual eyes were opened to the ever present truths of scripture. The comprehension of the great controversy and it’s origin by the lies perpetrated and perpetuated throughout the Bible on the attack of God’s character and government is truly priceless. Keep up the Good Work! Your servanthood is desperately needed in such a time as this!

Jeff D., Reading, MA, USA

 

Testimony 35

I am so pleased with the response your message is receiving at my church from the middle-aged to the young adults. I have given out 100 copies of the first two seminars and there are more request every week. One of my [class members] came to me after viewing the series, grateful and impressed with how easy the message was retained. He had been a Seventh-day Adventist in fear all his life, and felt like the scales were removed from his eyes after viewing the seminars. I am so impressed by the change I see in members who have received this message, we are in one accord. However, I am sadden by the negative response of the older people. I am verbally attacked anytime I talk about imposed laws, but I believe my mission is to enlightened everyone I can. I watch your Bible Study Class on YouTube every Friday night and I feel like I am apart of the class. All of you are in one accord and I am so blessed to have found you. I pray that all of you continue to spread this message and I am committed to doing my part.

Clara S., Westfield, MA, USA

 

Testimony 4

I’m a youth leader in South Africa. We as a youth group are currently using a lot of the material on the Come and Reason site. Since we’ve started using the material, our youth group has grown.

R. V. N., South Africa

 

Testimony 32

The message [of Come And Reason Ministries is] for all Christians (and those who may become Christians) and not just Adventists or any other group. It is difficult to imagine why any [anyone] with intellectual and spiritual honesty could find fault with the way you explained the healing substitution concepts and the truth about God’s character, though I know some will reject and criticize. On behalf of those in our group near Tacoma, WA, thank you and your staff for all of the hard work and for sharing the Gospel in this manner. God’s message of healing love will be carried to the whole world and then Jesus will come – He promised it.

Terry U., Tacoma, WA, USA

 

Testimony 71

When I was 9 years old, I remember setting at our devotional table with a hunger and thirst for God that wanted more, deeper, BETTER. I can remember literally crying and pounding on the table, “I know these teachers didn’t mean to give us error. They taught what THEY had been TAUGHT, but didn’t ANYBODY READ THE BOOK?!?!?” It mattered to me then. It mattered to me as a teenager. It matters now as I teach bible classes. It didn’t have to be so hard as I watched so many give up and lay God’s great plan and gift of salvation aside as being “impossible.” Then, a friend sent me a link to Come And Reason’s website. I grew excited. YES! FINALLY! Then another friend told me to stay away, saying her son had just broken up with a girl because she was involved with Come And Reason and that “Tim Jennings preaches a false gospel.” But, AFTER many years of developing an authentic and, dare I say FUN relationship with Jesus, through the Holy Spirit I see this message has been around a LONG time, since the apostle Paul, Ellen White, Graham Maxwell, Ray Foucher, and yourself (though I admit, you’ve made me back up, rewind and replay the clips, and get out my well-worn Bible on a few things.) I’m so thankful I have found LIGHT during these DARK days. I am not alone.

Vicki DiNitto

Testimony 21

I am absolutly on fire with the message at Come and Reason! I can’t get enough! I’ve read your book, blog, and articles. I’ve listened to your Bible study podcasts, your radio show, and your series – all excellent! It wasn’t until the past couple of years that I have I like I’m becoming “healthy,” with more to share with others than just beasts and commandments! I used to be a Bible worker and preached when the pastors were gone until I had had enough. I didnt realize at the time what the problem was, but i know now… the message wasn’t properly focused. Now my flame is rekindled. All of your little examples are so perfect in explaining something “complicated” and making it easily understood! Now I’m trying to shape it into a life changing evangelistic series! Thank you!

M.T., USA

 

Testimony 10

I personally download and listen to each of Come And Reason Ministries Bible study class lessons and PDF study notes to use when teaching my class. Really appreciate the class especially when Dr. Jennings is teaching. Thank God there are persons like him doing His work and traveling to share His beliefs.

B. L.M., North Plains, OR, USA