Trinity – More Questions

Trinity – More Questions

I just read your blog on the Trinity and thought everything you said was absolutely true. However, I have often wondered two things:

Number 1 is, if Jesus was not created then why is He subservient to the Father? As far as I understand it The Father is in charge, under him is Jesus and beneath Jesus is the Holy Spirit. Ellen White says that Jesus was uplifted to equality with the Father which was part of what inspired Lucifer’s rebellion. Why would God the Father have to bestow honor upon God the Son to make Him His equal if they are both from eternity past God?

Number 2 is, Why does the Godhead (which is defined by love) have to operate under the same structure of authority as a corporate business or military branch?

M


Thanks for your questions as your question may reflect the way many think about the Godhead. But, I think the idea that Jesus is “subservient” to the Father is a misunderstanding that results from not appreciating God’s character and the way His government works. In God’s economy “whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me and for the gospel will save it” (Mark 8:35), “So the last will be first, and the first will be last.” (Matt 20:16).

God’s kingdom is the kingdom of love and love gives all for the wellbeing of others. Thus Jesus is “exalted” because Jesus surrendered all and gave all for others. This exaltation is not “conferred” by the Father to the Son, but a result of the accomplishment of the Son in perfectly revealing and carrying out the Father’s character and purpose.

A better way to understand it, (recognizing of course that our finite minds are trying to probe the Infinite One so we will inevitably come up short of complete understanding), is that the Godhead voluntarily assumed different roles or functions for the accomplishments of Their purposes (a loving way all share together in giving for Their creation). Any of the three could have assumed any of the functions. We would err in concluding that when one of the three assumes a function that He was not capable of functioning in the role of one of the others.

As I understand their chosen roles, the Father acts as the source of all that is good. The Son is the medium, mediator, advocate, conduit, agent through which the Father reveals Himself or acts and the Holy Spirit is the actualizer or applier of what the Father and Son have achieved. Thus God was in the Son reconciling the world to Himself (2Cor 5:19). Jesus’ work on earth was the acting out of the Father’s heart. His completed mission and victory over sin are applied to the lives of believers by the work of the Holy Spirit. In creation we have the Father as the source, the Son as the architect, designer, and builder and the Spirit as the actualizer or implementer of Their design.

So, with this understanding we realize what Christ meant when He said, “I do nothing of myself.” Christ takes from the Father to fulfill all the Father’s purposes for His universe. In this sense we can see Christ turning to the Father, not to persuade the Father to be kind, but to receive the fullness of the Father’s purpose of love for His creation and carry that purpose out in meaningful action!

Regarding the comments from Ellen White, these are her exact words:

“The King of the universe summoned the heavenly hosts before Him, that in their presence He might set forth the true position of His Son and show the relation He sustained to all created beings. The Son of God shared the Father’s throne, and the glory of the eternal, self-existent One encircled both…. Leaving his place in the immediate presence of the Father, Lucifer went forth to diffuse the spirit of discontent among the angels….The exaltation of the Son of God as equal with the Father was represented as an injustice to Lucifer, who, it was claimed, was also entitled to reverence and honor. …There had been no change in the position or authority of Christ. Lucifer’s envy and misrepresentation and his claims to equality with Christ had made necessary a statement of the true position of the Son of God; but this had been the same from the beginning. Many of the angels were, however, blinded by Lucifer’s deceptions.” PP 37, 38

Finally, the Godhead does not operate like a human corporation or military. Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world.” God’s kingdom of love is not represented by human nations or corporations which are constantly seeking to promote themselves at the expense of others. God sacrifices Himself for others!

Christ Jesus, who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death— even death on a cross! Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name…Philippians 2:6-9

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Testimony 37

Hearing Dr. Jennings’ presentations in person came at a pivotal moment in my spiritual journey that began about nine months ago, when the fault lines inherent in my belief system began to crack under questions that most reasonable people end up asking about God and His nature. These were questions I couldn’t find answers to, and they shook my faith. I was unable let it go any longer and be satisfied. My Christian experience became distant. I was afraid; the fear in me rose like thorns, pushing me away from Jesus. And then someone heard my questions and introduced me to this ministry, and my life has totally changed.

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Anthony L., CA, USA

 

Testimony 12

I have been really blessed reading your response to the various questions on your site.

K.C., OH, USA

 

Testimony 68

Your message of design law vs imperial law is so uplifting and makes so much sense- it is a game changer for me. The fact that Jesus’s death is not a big payment by an angry God is , quite frankly, a relief.

Laura G., London, Ontario, Canada

 

Testimony 16

Your seminars are still inspiring and changing our lives and we continue to share the principles we have learned from you. Your ministry has changed our lives!

E.W.

 

Testimony 71

When I was 9 years old, I remember setting at our devotional table with a hunger and thirst for God that wanted more, deeper, BETTER. I can remember literally crying and pounding on the table, “I know these teachers didn’t mean to give us error. They taught what THEY had been TAUGHT, but didn’t ANYBODY READ THE BOOK?!?!?” It mattered to me then. It mattered to me as a teenager. It matters now as I teach bible classes. It didn’t have to be so hard as I watched so many give up and lay God’s great plan and gift of salvation aside as being “impossible.” Then, a friend sent me a link to Come And Reason’s website. I grew excited. YES! FINALLY! Then another friend told me to stay away, saying her son had just broken up with a girl because she was involved with Come And Reason and that “Tim Jennings preaches a false gospel.” But, AFTER many years of developing an authentic and, dare I say FUN relationship with Jesus, through the Holy Spirit I see this message has been around a LONG time, since the apostle Paul, Ellen White, Graham Maxwell, Ray Foucher, and yourself (though I admit, you’ve made me back up, rewind and replay the clips, and get out my well-worn Bible on a few things.) I’m so thankful I have found LIGHT during these DARK days. I am not alone.

Vicki DiNitto

Testimony 46

Over the past couple of years God has been expanding my view of Himself and His character. Along my approximately 40-year journey, I have often had questions, but was hesitant to voice these and step outside the traditionally accepted thinking, for fear of admitting that I may in fact be eternally lost. In the recesses of my thinking has been the thought – if one blindly accepts (which is widely regarded as “real faith”) and does not question, is this really ‘truth?’ I often find it challenging to grapple with very theological ‘speak,’ but Dr. Jennings has a real gift of explaining spiritual concepts with clear practical examples. The weekly discussions are growing my Christian experience and slowly changing my view of how to live as a child of God in today’s complex world. Finally the whole Old Testament sanctuary teaching moved in my mind from fantasy to reality!

Beverly S., South Africa

 

Testimony 6

I got the book “Could It Be This Simple?” a few months ago and the reading was wonderful and I was fascinated. I lent the book to a friend at work. She is having a difficult time and the book is helping her to find Jesus and I found this very exciting. She has asked me questions and I can see her life changing.

H. S., Australia

 

Testimony 4

I’m a youth leader in South Africa. We as a youth group are currently using a lot of the material on the Come and Reason site. Since we’ve started using the material, our youth group has grown.

R. V. N., South Africa

 

Testimony 45

I have been confused for years about what [christianity] calls [its] most disgusting teaching. It has never made much sense to me and for that reason has been evermore empty. I have listened to your class off and on and have struggled determining what is truth, because of the resistance design law encounters in the church. So, I thank God for your ministry. What you teach makes sense. It’s logical and backed up by the power of love. I have never seen that in Christ until now. I am astounded by the insight that is found when we look at God’s ministry through design law. All strength to this message, as I believe it to be the power of God.

Brendon S.

 

Testimony 67

I was introduced to Come And Reason by a friend of my mother-in-law, who gave me several CD’s of Dr. Jennings. The clarity of the message and recognition that God’s is a God of love was so clear, advancing beyond Dr. Maxwell’s message. However, grappled with Maxwell saying God used emergency measures for the fallen world. Now after several years of being a regular listener of the Come And Reasoning bible study class and attending Jennings’ meetings in Dallas/Fort Worth, TX, things are becoming clearer for me. Design law versus imposed law has added so much to my personal understanding of theology. This message has really impacted my work in counseling so many people miserable because they are searching for and trusting human governments to create order and peace or believing in a God who says love Me or I will kill you. I am grateful that I have an alternative view to offer my clients that makes sense. I teach a bible study class on a semi-regular basis and I value the materials that Come And Reason so freely offers to aid me in presenting this vital message. Thank you for continuing to provide advancement in our very limited understanding of a Infinite God that is rational and believable.

Dr. Roger D, Arlington, TX, USA

 

Testimony 36

Thank you and may God continue to bless you as you share with others the intricacies of how we are all “fearfully and wonderfully made”. I must share that you have opened a whole new world to me, and I have found tremendous healing through what you have shared in two of your books, “Could It Be This Simple?” and “The God Shaped Brain.” I praise God for what you shared, what I have learned, and how I have grown and healed! My prayer is that My Precious Jesus will be seen by others in the way I live, act, talk, etc. and they may be encouraged to know He is truly a GREAT God of LOVE, desiring that no one should perish! God Bless you in your continued endeavors to present Him as He really is!

Joleen H. GA, USA

 

Testimony 35

I am so pleased with the response your message is receiving at my church from the middle-aged to the young adults. I have given out 100 copies of the first two seminars and there are more request every week. One of my [class members] came to me after viewing the series, grateful and impressed with how easy the message was retained. He had been a Seventh-day Adventist in fear all his life, and felt like the scales were removed from his eyes after viewing the seminars. I am so impressed by the change I see in members who have received this message, we are in one accord. However, I am sadden by the negative response of the older people. I am verbally attacked anytime I talk about imposed laws, but I believe my mission is to enlightened everyone I can. I watch your Bible Study Class on YouTube every Friday night and I feel like I am apart of the class. All of you are in one accord and I am so blessed to have found you. I pray that all of you continue to spread this message and I am committed to doing my part.

Clara S., Westfield, MA, USA

 

Testimony 31

It was very touching to hear the testimony of your class share how viewing God’s true character has changed their lives. My feelings are the same – there is so much freedom in knowing that God LOVES me – regardless of my… just, REGARDLESS! I’m still blown away by the true gospel, the fact that God is not ready to strike us when we fail. He is not arbitrary. He simply loves us and warns of the natural consequences because He can’t stand to see us suffer. I AM IN LOVE WITH THIS GOD!!!

Ceil V.,  UT, USA

 

Testimony 27

Your teachings about our heavenly Father have changed my life. Thank you sooooooo very very much! I know He’s doing some serious healing in my heart and life and I look forward to each new day to learn something new about Him and to just hear you speak about Him. Thank you, forever.

Nancy S.

 

Testimony 18

The Healing the Mind DVD set tarted me on a journey that has changed my relationship with our loving God more significantly than any other study, and brought me to your book and Bible study podcasts, which I now listen to daily, thanks to the availability of archived content on your site and on iTunes.

Anonymous