Call Us: 423 661-4734 | Email: requests@comeandreason.com      
Six Steps to Dialogue with Those Who Disagree with the Healing Model

Six Steps to Dialogue with Those Who Disagree with the Healing Model

Recently, a kind Seventh-day Adventist gentleman, whom I have known for many years and who disagrees with our Healing Model of salvation, began an email conversation with me. Our exchange has produced some useful dialogue, which I believe will be helpful to share.

He expressed concern that the Healing Model presents only the subjective views of the atonement, while the Legal Model presents both objective and subjective views. Then he gave examples of subjective and objective:

  • God in Christ reconciling a world of enemies to Himself is objective. Every sinner reconciling himself to God is subjective.
  • Joshua the High Priest as a brand plucked from the fire is subjective. The world of sinners as a brand plucked from the fire is objective.
  • A divine forgiveness for all sin is objective. A sinner personally experiencing that forgiveness is subjective.

My response: Regarding the objective and subjective aspects of the atonement, the Healing Model teaches that both subjective and objective elements are required for a sinner to be saved.

We define “objective” to be what God has done, irrespective of human response, for the salvation of humankind; and subjective to be our response to what God has done.

Regardless of any individual human response (subjective), the species human was saved (objective) in the person of Jesus Christ, who became fully human and lived sinlessly. Because Jesus was fully human, incarnate as part of the humanity descended from Adam, and His sinless personhood was tempted in every way like we are, but was without sin (Hebrews 4:15), He put the species right with God. Jesus restored the species, in His humanity, to righteousness, freeing it from sin. All other human beings are saved based on their faith in Him, not by their works. Our faith does not save us; our faith is the means whereby we partake of what Christ has objectively achieved for us.

The gentleman followed up with several other questions:

  • Does the Healing Model teach that Christ did not die the second death on the cross?
  • Does the Healing Model teach that the initial act of sin is not the thing that needed fixing?
  • Does the Healing Model teach that Christ on the cross did not bear the world’s sins (everyone’s individual acts throughout all human history)?
  • The Healing Model emphasizes man’s sinfulness, or condition of sin. Is this equivalent to our carnal, sinful, fallen nature?

What follows below is my strategy for dealing with those who struggle with understanding the Healing Model, interlaced with my specific response to the gentleman. I share it with you as steps you can take when you face similar discussions.


Step 1: Define the landscape of the conversation. The overarching landscape that sets the stage is how one understands God’s law. This must be decided before the specific questions can be answered.

My response: These are all excellent questions, and I have detailed answers for them. But they are subordinate questions, and the answers to them become self-evident once the primary questions are answered. If we don’t first answer the primary questions accurately, then these secondary questions all end up with misleading or incomplete answers.

What are the primary questions?

What is the problem that sin caused that the plan of salvation is designed to fix? In other words, we need to rightly understand the problem before we can correctly understand the solution. The atonement is the heart of the solution—but what is the problem? Sin? Okay, absolutely—but what is sin? Transgression of the law? Okay, absolutely—but what law? God’s law? Of course, absolutely true, but how does God’s law function—what kind of law is it? This is the heart of the origin of sin in heaven; altering the view of God’s law is how sin began in heaven, and it will end over the same issue.


Step 2: Give references recognized as valid by the party with whom you are dialoguing. The following are quotations from E.G. White, one of the founders of the Adventist Church and one whom many believe had special, Spirit-led insight into the plan of salvation. These references are useful in making the case regarding how law is understood especially when dialoguing with Adventists.

The last great conflict between truth and error is but the final struggle of the long-standing controversy concerning the law of God. Upon this battle we are now entering,—a battle between the laws of men and the precepts of Jehovah, between the religion of the Bible and the religion of fable and tradition (The Great Controversy, 582).

There is no such thing as weakening or strengthening the law of Jehovah. As it has been, so it is. It always has been, and always will be holy, just, and good, complete in itself. It cannot be repealed or changed. To “honor” or “dishonor” it is but the speech of men.

Between the laws of men and the precepts of Jehovah will come the last great conflict of the controversy between truth and error. Upon this battle we are now entering—a battle not between rival churches contending for the supremacy, but between the religion of the Bible and the religions of fable and tradition (Prophets and Kings, 625).

But in heaven, service is not rendered in the spirit of legality. When Satan rebelled against the law of Jehovah, the thought that there was a law came to the angels almost as an awakening to something unthought of (Thoughts from the Mount of Blessing, 109).

My response in addition to the quotations: What kind of law cannot be weakened or strengthened, has always been, and will always be, and is in force but unthought of? None other than the design laws upon which reality is built to exist!

Imposed rules, which humans make, which require external enforcement, must be posted; humans and angels must be informed or instructed about made-up laws in order to hold them accountable. But not so with design law.

Consider when Isaac Newton told his friends that he had discovered the law of gravity; can’t you hear them saying, “A law? Really? Wow, I never thought there was a law about gravity; it’s just how things work.”

But in heaven, Satan introduced a lie about the concept of law. He introduced the idea that the law is not design protocols for life and health and happiness, but merely a system of rules that if broken will require God to inflict punishment:

In the opening of the great controversy, Satan had declared that the law of God could not be obeyed, that justice was inconsistent with mercy, and that, should the law be broken, it would be impossible for the sinner to be pardoned. Every sin must meet its punishment, urged Satan; and if God should remit the punishment of sin, He would not be a God of truth and justice. (The Desire of Ages, 761).


Step 3: Bring the discussion to a decision point that demarcates the landscape for future dialogue and conclusions. If we cannot agree that God’s law is design law, then the subordinate questions will all be misunderstood. No matter what explanation I give, they will be rejected because they won’t make sense if the imposed law view is assumed to be true.


Step 4: You can leave it there and allow time for the primary questions to be considered and answered. In an in-person conversation, I would likely do that, but in an email exchange with someone who will think things through carefully, then you can make some further applications of the design-law understanding to the questions asked.

For instance, in my response, I asked: What is the problem that sin caused that the plan of salvation is designed to fix? Let me ask it again another way: When Adam and Eve sinned, did God get changed? Of course not! Did God’s law get changed? Of course not! Did the actual condition of Adam and Eve change? Yes—they became sinners; they were not still sinless, holy beings with love and trust operating in their hearts but who were now in legal trouble with God. The image of God within them was damaged, love was displaced, and fear and selfishness now ruled in their hearts.

So, if the change that sin caused was not in God, does the atonement (solution) need to do something to God? Does the atonement need to do something to God’s law? Or does the atonement need to have its power, action, impact within humanity? This is why Jesus had to become human—because it was in humanity that Jesus had to do His saving work; He did that work as a human.

Design law informs us that God’s law is the basis of life. Sin transgresses that law and takes one out of harmony with God and life; without the atonement, the result of sin is ruin and death:

“The wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23 NIV84).

“Sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death” (James 1:15 NIV84).

“The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction” (Galatians 6:8 NIV84).

God acted through Christ to save sinners by eradicating sin from human beings and restoring human beings to at-one-ment with Him. How? By upholding, sustaining, restoring, and living out His law in the humanity of Jesus; by doing this, the law of life (love) destroyed the law of sin and death—the cause of death. As Scripture says:

“Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil” (Hebrews 2:14 NIV84).

“But it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel” (2 Timothy 1:10 NIV84).

So, Christ destroyed death and brought life and immortality to light—this is by restoring God’s living law into the humanity He assumed by the action of His human self. Incredible!

We, by faith, receive that gift, that victory within us that heals and transforms us:

“I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me” (Galatians 2:20 NIV84)

“We have the mind of Christ” (1 Corinthians 2:16 NIV84)

“This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts” (Hebrews 8:10 NIV84).

“You may become partakers of the divine nature” (2 Peter 1:4 NET).


Step 5: Challenge them to apply the design-law perspective to their questions.

My response: Consider your questions through design law and see if the answers don’t become self-evident. I will give an insight on the second death question: Don’t assume the meaning of the term. Go to Scripture and let the inspired record define what the second death is. If you do that, and apply the description rather than the term “second death,” do you believe that Christ died the second death? If you would like to see my answer, you can read my blog at Did Christ Die the Second Death?


Step 6: Give them a problem that causes cognitive dissonance. Say something that doesn’t fit their paradigm and that they will have a hard time ignoring (using an authority the other person values will make it more difficult for them to ignore the question).

My response: You asked, “Does the Healing Model teach that the initial act of sin is not the thing that needed fixing?”

This question is confusing to me. The initial sin was not an act so much as a change in attitude when Lucifer stopped being loving and became filled with pride, changing from loyal love to selfishness that led to acts of rebellion; the sin was not the acts themselves but the selfishness that grew in his heart. The focus on acts suggests to me that sin is being viewed through the human-law model. Further confusion for me about your question comes from awareness of E.G. White’s statement in The Great Controversy about the initial sin of Lucifer:

God in His great mercy bore long with Lucifer. He was not immediately degraded from his exalted station when he first indulged the spirit of discontent, nor even when he began to present his false claims before the loyal angels. Long was he retained in heaven. Again and again he was offered pardon on condition of repentance and submission … if he had been willing to return to God, acknowledging the Creator’s wisdom, and satisfied to fill the place appointed him in God’s great plan, he would have been reinstated in his office (495).

Notice, Lucifer is bearing false witness in heaven, yet he is offered pardon on the condition of repentance and submission without any legal payment—no sin bearer, no death penalty—and he would have been reinstated if he would have repented. The design-law understanding brings harmony to all these statements, but the legal model contradicts these statements insisting a death penalty must be inflicted upon a “sin-bearer” in order for pardon to be extended.


So, when in dialogue with interested parties who struggle to correctly understand the Healing Model, consider using these steps in presenting the truth to them. Be sure to present this truth in love and in patience, giving them room to grow and adapt to ever-unfolding truth, just as we all are doing every day!

 
Email me the blog whenever a new one is published.

Donate online, securely via PayPal using your credit or debit card (no PayPal account needed, unless you want to set up a monthly, recurring payment).


cancel recurring payment

 

Want to use zelle instead?
See how on our
Support and Donations page.

Upcoming Events

calendar

Testimonial Post Slider

Testimony 6

I got the book “Could It Be This Simple?” a few months ago and the reading was wonderful and I was fascinated. I lent the book to a friend at work. She is having a difficult time and the book is helping her to find Jesus and I found this very exciting. She has asked me questions and I can see her life changing.

H. S., Australia

 

Testimony 1

Thank you! I love listening to the Come And Reason Ministries Bible study classes and am using some of your notes to get the lessons together that I will be teaching. You always have such good quotes and Bible texts and pull things together to make good sense.

T. C., IN, USA

 

Testimony 22

I have found your Bible study class lectures to be very inspiring and useful as I prepare to teach class every other week. I subscribe to the podcast and download your notes on the weeks I teach. The audio and notes are such a great help in preparing. My own understanding of God’s character has grown as I teach the class. Commendations on the thought-provoking and well-prepared material Come and Reason provides. Personally, I get excited by the tie you make between the spiritual and mental/physical domains.

A.A. Corrales, NM, USA

 

Testimony 5

We listen to your bible studies lessons in our class in Montana. You actually were the main reason I decided to get a laptop, so I can go to your site and listen, read, learn, and print the class notes. I am so grateful to learn the correct view of God and his character. Now, to just have others have an interest in knowing, so I can share it with them. Good thoughts your way.

R. N., MT, USA

 

Testimony 34

I was introduced to Come and Reason Ministries by accident, via a passing comment made in a bible study class we were visiting. I checked this website out and my life was changed. The understanding of the truth of God’s character, and how we apply it, is so right. The tricky part is consistently applying which “lens” to look through. As I began to understand, I started sharing the basics of this understanding with a discussion group I was leading and, suddenly, a lot of things started to make sense that never used to. At the same time, I enjoyed an amazing opportunity. I was able to conduct a full bible study at WORK! What an amazing experience! It is such a joy to share the truth about God and to share how it all fits in the war between God and Satan. So many people benefit when we have a correct understanding about how God works and who He really is! Thank you for this transformational understanding. Keep up the good work! God Bless you!

Tony P., CA, USA

 

Testimony 4

I’m a youth leader in South Africa. We as a youth group are currently using a lot of the material on the Come and Reason site. Since we’ve started using the material, our youth group has grown.

R. V. N., South Africa

 

Testimony 49

I came into the church at 21, but that is as far as it went. I was so confused about what love is. I couldn’t find it in the bible, because I am not a person that can read between the lines. I have no logic. I have read many, many books; trying to figure out the crux of the matter. They were helpful, but something was still missing. I have become very frustrated to the point of crying out to God, “Where can I go?”  I needed some basics.

I found two books, written by Timothy Jennings, MD, to be very helpful. God showed me that I had lived my whole life in fear. I didn’t even see it. Now, I do. God is so good.  I discovered the “The Remedy”  Dr. Jennings new book, “The God-Shaped Heart!” Oh, I was so excited, I purchased them right away.

I can get rid of most of my books, because “The Remedy” brings the Love of God out so clearly, even I can’t miss it. Now, I want to sit and read my Bible. Wow, what a revelation! It is just simply Awesome! I am so grateful to Jehovah Almighty for hearing my prayer for more understanding! I am so encouraged!

Jackie S.

 

Testimony 40

I was brought up in a different faith and have been petrified my whole life of God. I believed that I would burn in hell for eternity. When I was 12 I started pursuing the things of this world, but for the next 45 years the Spirit was always calling me, as I knew there was a God through nature. I could see the vast sea of stars in the universe and knew there was something bigger out there. Five years ago, through a Revelation seminar, I was blessed to learn about God’s character and government.

Then I found Come and Reason Ministries and have come under some extreme pressure when I speak about the ministry. One time a member sent me an internet article titled “Whats wrong with Tim Jennings?” I asked her what she thought of it and she said “I don’t know, I didn’t read it.”

I have always wanted to find out for myself the truth about God, so I stayed with the Design Law construct and have been liberated to understand the big picture. Once we consider Design Law, all other Bible stories and prophecies seem to fit perfectly. It is truly beautiful to see people grasping how God operates this Universe of Love and the liberation it has provided in their lives. It blows my mind to see how consistent Design law is with what our founders believed. I hear statements like “This makes so much sense.”

Tom W., Mt. Pleasant, MI, USA

 

Testimony 19

I truly believe that to know who God really is the first step to understand ourselves in a balanced and kind way, so the healing can take place. Your approach really makes sense – Thank you for your ministry!

A.M., Pittsburg, PA, USA

Testimony 55

I was born [into the church], then I left it for many years. 10 years ago, I came back, but I could not take the hypocrisy and the lack of answers to the missing pieces. I struggled, but I did not abandon my commitment to know the truth. God is leading me to the simple understanding of his relevance and I am relearning what the church taught me as a youth… that he loves me, that he has led me to a knowledge of him such as I have never known. He is using Dr. Jennings to connect the dots that are now so apparent and hiding in plain sight!

Dean P., Arlington, TX, USA

 

Testimony 14

We really appreciate your views on the judgment and they make good sense considering our free choice.

Anonymous

 

Testimony 45

I have been confused for years about what [christianity] calls [its] most disgusting teaching. It has never made much sense to me and for that reason has been evermore empty. I have listened to your class off and on and have struggled determining what is truth, because of the resistance design law encounters in the church. So, I thank God for your ministry. What you teach makes sense. It’s logical and backed up by the power of love. I have never seen that in Christ until now. I am astounded by the insight that is found when we look at God’s ministry through design law. All strength to this message, as I believe it to be the power of God.

Brendon S.

 

Testimony 32

The message [of Come And Reason Ministries is] for all Christians (and those who may become Christians) and not just Adventists or any other group. It is difficult to imagine why any [anyone] with intellectual and spiritual honesty could find fault with the way you explained the healing substitution concepts and the truth about God’s character, though I know some will reject and criticize. On behalf of those in our group near Tacoma, WA, thank you and your staff for all of the hard work and for sharing the Gospel in this manner. God’s message of healing love will be carried to the whole world and then Jesus will come – He promised it.

Terry U., Tacoma, WA, USA

 

Testimony 52

Your unique way in spreading the truth is what we all need today. Most of us don’t recognize the contamination coming from all the lies and selfishness in the world. Because of our fear of death, we forgot how to live. Lies left and right. I was losing hope and faith, because of so many ideas that are always contradicting each other – so many questions answered by other, more complicated, questions – until I found your channel on YouTube.

You did not just give me answers, you also taught me how to answer new questions that arise in my mind. Now I see things differently. I see God’s mercy, grace, and Love everywhere, in spite of all the chaos that we all have done as humans. I don’t fear death anymore. Accepting the Truth and Love about God is truly a genuine Freedom from all the confusions, sufferings, selfishness, pain, and death.

I just wanted to say, thank you, sooooo much for revealing the real Remedy for our infected life. I have a new hope and now see the world in a different perspective!

Wheinny P., University Place, WA, USA

 

Testimony 50

After coming into contact with Come And Reason Ministries, I can finally say that many of my unanswered questions have fallen into place. I discovered that my view of God’s Law was “imposed laws and rules” with “imposed punishments” and that this was the major culprit of my many unanswered questions. Thanks be to God for using you and those around you to help us who have struggled with this “infection” of thought. I have now rejected the “imposed law” concept to fully embrace “Design Law”… to look thru “Design Law,” instead of “imposed law,” is a relief.

Viliami L., Australia