Call Us: 423 661-4734 | Email: requests@comeandreason.com      
Revelation 12:7 What Happened Before Earth Was Created?

Revelation 12:7 What Happened Before Earth Was Created?

Dr. Jennings,

My question is in regards to Revelation 12:7. Would you please tell me how the event happened before earth was created? I do believe that angels were here before we were created as it says in Job 38:6, 7.

I have in my mind that Revelation 12:7 is a parenthetical statement, but is there another way to verify it’s context Biblically as happening pre-Earth?

Keep up the awesome work the Lord has given you. Thanking you in advance,

Louis


The following is my understanding:

God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit existed in the Triune state of perfect love. God is Love. This is Their nature and character, and the Bible tells us that “love is not self-seeking” but love “gives” itself away (John 3:16, 1John 3:16). Thus, God exists in a plurality of perfect love.

The Triune God of love gave of self in order to create all that we know in the universe (except sin), time, space, matter, energy, and life all originate in God.

The first intelligent living being created by God was a brilliant being, the sum total of perfection, created at the dawn of creation, an angel named Lucifer. (Isaiah 14:12-17). After making Lucifer, God created more beings, angels and intelligent beings on other planets, billions of years ago (Job 1:6, 38:7, Heb 1:2 ASV).

The universe existed in perfection with all things operating in harmony with God’s character of love for billions of years. Jesus, prior to His incarnation, manifested Himself in the form of an angel (see last week’s blog, Are Jesus and Michael one and the same?).

Lucifer at some point became filled with pride and began to think he inherently possessed all his abilities and talents and came to think himself equal to Christ (Ezekiel 28:1-19).

But, no matter how exalted a finite being is, that being is still finite and cannot enter into the understanding of the Infinite One (1Tim 6:16). This is not because God is restrictive in His willingness, but because created beings are restricted in their abilities, being, by definition, finite. But, when Jesus, the infinite one, appearing in the form of an angel, entered into counsels with the Father, Lucifer, filled with pride and an inflated self-importance, became jealous of Christ and began spreading rumors that God was unfair and arbitrary in taking Christ into counsels that Lucifer was not permitted to enter.

In Revelation 12:7, the Greek which is translated, “war,” is polemo, from which we get polemic, which is a verbal presentation or argument. Satan is the father of lies, and his war was a war of words over the character of God, based on his jealously of Christ. Thus, 2Cor 10:3-5 states that we wage war with divine weapons to demolish, “every argument and pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God.”

With the lies about God spreading throughout the universe that God was unfair because of his preference for Christ when, as Lucifer claimed he and Christ were equals, God the Father, Son and Spirit, in addition to telling the truth, began to provide evidence. They created planet earth.

This is why Christ is the member of the Godhead through which all things were made, not because the Others couldn’t have created, but because Christ was demonstrating by action that He was God and not a finite being like Lucifer. Further, to destroy the lies of Satan regarding God’s character, God made life on planet earth, and then made man in His image to rule over the planet in love. The earth was created as the lesson book, or microcosm of the universe itself (1Cor 4:9).

As the Father, Son and Holy Spirit come into the unity of love and create beings in their image, so too mankind was designed to come into the unity of love and create beings in their image. What would the universe have learned if Adam and Eve would have stayed loyal and had children in a world without sin? Would they have enslaved and abused their children, or given of themselves constantly for the health and welfare of their offspring? And the universe would have realized God didn’t create us to wait on Him, God isn’t restrictive with His love, but He is giving of Himself constantly for our good! What an incredible privilege mankind was created to fulfill.

Further, Adam and Eve were to have dominion over all life on earth, a miniature of the universe in which God has dominion over all life. As the Bible says, this earth is “a theater a spectacle unto angels and men” (1Cor 4:9). And when Adam and Eve were planning where they wanted to build something in the garden, etc., why wouldn’t they include the lion, giraffe, or elephant in the conversation? Would it be because Adam and Eve were arbitrary and selfish, or that the animals simply couldn’t comprehend and had nothing to offer to the conversation? This is why Lucifer was not included in the counsels between Christ and His Father in heaven. After all, which is a bigger intelligence gap, that between man and a lion, or that between a created being and God?

When we understand things in this way the Bible makes so much more sense and science harmonizes perfectly. Genesis is the account of creation of earth, not the entire universe. In the context of Lucifer’s polemic – war of false allegations against God, Jesus goes to a small corner of the Milky Way and begins terraforming of a black hole into a planet teeming with life. This is described in the first few chapters of Genesis. On day one the black hole dissipates, and light from the rest of space is seen “let there be light.” And on day four, God makes the sun, moon and stars of our solar system (Venus, Mercury and Mars). The matter from the center of the black hole, which God made billions of years in the past when He created the rest of the universe, He used to make planet earth. Thus the bedrock of earth is billions of years old, the universe itself, with its cosmic radiation, is billions of years old, while life on earth is less than 10,000 years old.

Satan realized if Adam and Eve fulfilled their purpose in revealing God’s character he would be exposed, so he utilized the same “warfare” tactics on our first parents as he did on angels. He called God’s trustworthiness into question and got them to believe lies. Because when lies are believed love and trust is broken. Our first parents were infected with lies about God, which resulted in love and trust being broken, and fear and selfishness, a.k.a. survival of the fittest, being established in humankind and planet earth. Christ came in order to reverse all of this and restore mankind back to God’s original design!

Yes, we are at war, and the battlefield is the mind, and the issue centers on the trustworthiness of God Himself! As Jesus said, life eternal is knowing God, and the truth about God will set us free from the lies of Satan (John 17:3, 8:32). It is our privilege to know the truth about God and share that truth with others to lighten the world with the true knowledge of God and prepare for Christ’s return!

On this Thanksgiving day in the US, I give thanks to God for who He is, and all He has done to reveal the truth, win us back to trust, and restore His love into our hearts!

Email me the blog whenever a new one is published.

Donate online, securely via PayPal using your credit or debit card (no PayPal account needed, unless you want to set up a monthly, recurring payment).


cancel recurring payment

 

Want to use zelle instead?
See how on our
Support and Donations page.

Upcoming Events

calendar

Testimonial Post Slider

Testimony 38

Since November 2015, when I started studying Gods word from this God Is Love point of view, my life has been transformed. My troubled marriage of 15 years has been healed and my husband and I are truly happy for the first time in 15 years. Now When I read the word of God I understand it so much better and I can’t help but see Gods love radiating through the pages to humanity. Gods word is living and active and I am blessed beyond measure to be having this amazing experience. God has given me a beautiful understanding of Jn 3:16 that amazes me more and more each day. Thank you again for your ministry.

Helen D., London, England

 

Testimony 1

Thank you! I love listening to the Come And Reason Ministries Bible study classes and am using some of your notes to get the lessons together that I will be teaching. You always have such good quotes and Bible texts and pull things together to make good sense.

T. C., IN, USA

 

Testimony 53

I was so blessed by a friend who gave me your book, “The God Shaped Brain,” while I was sitting in church asking God to please help me learn more about Him and help me not to be so confused and scared. That was about 2 years ago. Your books have helped me to love God even more. I’m not confused or scared anymore! I have listened to all of your bible study classes and feel like I know the wonderful people that attend every week. Thank you for all that you’re doing in spreading the true message about God and His law of love. God bless you and your whole class.

Elssy P., Modesto, CA, USA

 

Testimony 36

Thank you and may God continue to bless you as you share with others the intricacies of how we are all “fearfully and wonderfully made”. I must share that you have opened a whole new world to me, and I have found tremendous healing through what you have shared in two of your books, “Could It Be This Simple?” and “The God Shaped Brain.” I praise God for what you shared, what I have learned, and how I have grown and healed! My prayer is that My Precious Jesus will be seen by others in the way I live, act, talk, etc. and they may be encouraged to know He is truly a GREAT God of LOVE, desiring that no one should perish! God Bless you in your continued endeavors to present Him as He really is!

Joleen H. GA, USA

 

Testimony 28

I have been following your Bible study class for about a year now. I must say I am impressed with how your ministry has grown. I took it upon myself to listen to all your lesson podcasts from the past and they have both enriched me physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually. I have learnt a lot from this class. I have also noticed how the class has grown in spiritual strength. One of the things that benefited me is that now I am not afraid of God. I use to be, but now it has melted away. The second thing is that you helped me to have a real life relationship with God. Now He is my friend that was always there and I love having him with me all the time. Thirdly, because of this class, it inspired me to take over and lead a class. I have called it “Let Us Reason Together,” adapting your inquisitive style and creating a class of free thinkers.

T. Banda, Malawi, Africa

 

Testimony 45

I have been confused for years about what [christianity] calls [its] most disgusting teaching. It has never made much sense to me and for that reason has been evermore empty. I have listened to your class off and on and have struggled determining what is truth, because of the resistance design law encounters in the church. So, I thank God for your ministry. What you teach makes sense. It’s logical and backed up by the power of love. I have never seen that in Christ until now. I am astounded by the insight that is found when we look at God’s ministry through design law. All strength to this message, as I believe it to be the power of God.

Brendon S.

 

Testimony 57

You have helped make sense of thirty two years of confusion. The material you freely provide reorganized so much of my life into such a beautiful pattern that has always been hinted at from within, but misguided with my training and what I was experiencing externally. My filipno parents, who were converted from Catholicism to SDA, were sincere and did their best to raise me the right way and I have deep respect for them. However, being immigrants and not understanding the language made for a difficult transition as I was growing up, which also applied to my spiritual growth as I learned the patterns of religion. I have been listening to as many bible study classes and reading blog posts as my time in a work truck will allow, searching for the practical applications of where spirituality and reality meet, and I thank you for helping me find that. You have helped me reach a point in which I can truly say that I love God, that I believe He loves me, and, like David, I delight in His law. God bless.

Emmanuel V., Calgary, AB Canada

Testimony 69

After reading your book, ‘Could It Be This Simple,’ someone was explaining Christianity in a way that made sense to me for the first time in my life. One morning, I simply prayed “I’m sorry and I love you.” As soon as I silently said that, I could literally feel God’s presence and light flood down on me from above and fill me up with love and joy. I sat there crying my eyes out, because I was so overpowered with this feeling of love and joy. It was just so incredible. I hope that more people can read this book and get a blessing from it. It’s really amazing.

Rachael H.

Testimony 8

Thank you for the ministry you are sharing with us, it is a real blessing to us and especially to my husband and myself! You are encouraging us to think for ourselves and not just to except everything, without thinking it through, with God’s word!

M.K., USA

 

Testimony 4

I’m a youth leader in South Africa. We as a youth group are currently using a lot of the material on the Come and Reason site. Since we’ve started using the material, our youth group has grown.

R. V. N., South Africa

 

Testimony 14

We really appreciate your views on the judgment and they make good sense considering our free choice.

Anonymous

 

Testimony 63

I’ve been very blessed by “The God Shaped Brain” and this ministry, through video and podcast, over the last few years. It’s truly opened up my eyes more to the truth about God and the importance of that truth in the present world. The message is so inviting, freeing and enlightening and MORE people need to know about it. I believe it is the last message that can truly, not only prepare a people for salvation and translation, but vindicate the character of God.

Michael V., Yonkers, NY, USA

 

Testimony 60

Just watched watched lesson 10 in the 1st quarter 2021 bible study classs on Isaiah. I want to thank you for your intellectual spirituality; it’s not an oxymoron! From the point of view of a teacher I also enjoy seeing how much personal pleasure you clearly take in not just tasting, but feasting on God’s word – it reminds me of Jeremiah not being able to hold it in! It makes me smile that your cup is so full and overflowing that you make it to Tuesday’s lesson (on a good day). It just goes to show the richness of God’s Word.

God bless the Come and Reason Team from our church here in Great Britain.

Andrew H., Great Britain

 

Testimony 71

When I was 9 years old, I remember setting at our devotional table with a hunger and thirst for God that wanted more, deeper, BETTER. I can remember literally crying and pounding on the table, “I know these teachers didn’t mean to give us error. They taught what THEY had been TAUGHT, but didn’t ANYBODY READ THE BOOK?!?!?” It mattered to me then. It mattered to me as a teenager. It matters now as I teach bible classes. It didn’t have to be so hard as I watched so many give up and lay God’s great plan and gift of salvation aside as being “impossible.” Then, a friend sent me a link to Come And Reason’s website. I grew excited. YES! FINALLY! Then another friend told me to stay away, saying her son had just broken up with a girl because she was involved with Come And Reason and that “Tim Jennings preaches a false gospel.” But, AFTER many years of developing an authentic and, dare I say FUN relationship with Jesus, through the Holy Spirit I see this message has been around a LONG time, since the apostle Paul, Ellen White, Graham Maxwell, Ray Foucher, and yourself (though I admit, you’ve made me back up, rewind and replay the clips, and get out my well-worn Bible on a few things.) I’m so thankful I have found LIGHT during these DARK days. I am not alone.

Vicki DiNitto

Testimony 62

I would like to express my thanks to the C&R team for creating a platform from which people can learn to trust in God and grow. My life is a witness to the effectiveness of this ministry. Without believing the truth about God as you have shown, I don’t know what my life would be like. I had given up on God helping me with certain sins – it was all useless. Given that the scripture is clear and God is so good, how could I have betrayed him so many times? I was a yo-yo christian; spinning up and down. My faith and enthusiasm was driven by discoveries/threats that prophecy is about to be fulfilled. But when I watched your “Healing the Mind” seminar, it was like a light finally went on. I could see God had no plan to hurt me, the danger came from sin, and that He is working to protect me and strengthen me. Thank you for allowing God to use you. The message God gave C&R saved my life!

Antony N. – Hobart, Australia