Call Us: 423 661-4734 | Email: requests@comeandreason.com      
Revelation 12:7 What Happened Before Earth Was Created?

Revelation 12:7 What Happened Before Earth Was Created?

Dr. Jennings,

My question is in regards to Revelation 12:7. Would you please tell me how the event happened before earth was created? I do believe that angels were here before we were created as it says in Job 38:6, 7.

I have in my mind that Revelation 12:7 is a parenthetical statement, but is there another way to verify it’s context Biblically as happening pre-Earth?

Keep up the awesome work the Lord has given you. Thanking you in advance,

Louis


The following is my understanding:

God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit existed in the Triune state of perfect love. God is Love. This is Their nature and character, and the Bible tells us that “love is not self-seeking” but love “gives” itself away (John 3:16, 1John 3:16). Thus, God exists in a plurality of perfect love.

The Triune God of love gave of self in order to create all that we know in the universe (except sin), time, space, matter, energy, and life all originate in God.

The first intelligent living being created by God was a brilliant being, the sum total of perfection, created at the dawn of creation, an angel named Lucifer. (Isaiah 14:12-17). After making Lucifer, God created more beings, angels and intelligent beings on other planets, billions of years ago (Job 1:6, 38:7, Heb 1:2 ASV).

The universe existed in perfection with all things operating in harmony with God’s character of love for billions of years. Jesus, prior to His incarnation, manifested Himself in the form of an angel (see last week’s blog, Are Jesus and Michael one and the same?).

Lucifer at some point became filled with pride and began to think he inherently possessed all his abilities and talents and came to think himself equal to Christ (Ezekiel 28:1-19).

But, no matter how exalted a finite being is, that being is still finite and cannot enter into the understanding of the Infinite One (1Tim 6:16). This is not because God is restrictive in His willingness, but because created beings are restricted in their abilities, being, by definition, finite. But, when Jesus, the infinite one, appearing in the form of an angel, entered into counsels with the Father, Lucifer, filled with pride and an inflated self-importance, became jealous of Christ and began spreading rumors that God was unfair and arbitrary in taking Christ into counsels that Lucifer was not permitted to enter.

In Revelation 12:7, the Greek which is translated, “war,” is polemo, from which we get polemic, which is a verbal presentation or argument. Satan is the father of lies, and his war was a war of words over the character of God, based on his jealously of Christ. Thus, 2Cor 10:3-5 states that we wage war with divine weapons to demolish, “every argument and pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God.”

With the lies about God spreading throughout the universe that God was unfair because of his preference for Christ when, as Lucifer claimed he and Christ were equals, God the Father, Son and Spirit, in addition to telling the truth, began to provide evidence. They created planet earth.

This is why Christ is the member of the Godhead through which all things were made, not because the Others couldn’t have created, but because Christ was demonstrating by action that He was God and not a finite being like Lucifer. Further, to destroy the lies of Satan regarding God’s character, God made life on planet earth, and then made man in His image to rule over the planet in love. The earth was created as the lesson book, or microcosm of the universe itself (1Cor 4:9).

As the Father, Son and Holy Spirit come into the unity of love and create beings in their image, so too mankind was designed to come into the unity of love and create beings in their image. What would the universe have learned if Adam and Eve would have stayed loyal and had children in a world without sin? Would they have enslaved and abused their children, or given of themselves constantly for the health and welfare of their offspring? And the universe would have realized God didn’t create us to wait on Him, God isn’t restrictive with His love, but He is giving of Himself constantly for our good! What an incredible privilege mankind was created to fulfill.

Further, Adam and Eve were to have dominion over all life on earth, a miniature of the universe in which God has dominion over all life. As the Bible says, this earth is “a theater a spectacle unto angels and men” (1Cor 4:9). And when Adam and Eve were planning where they wanted to build something in the garden, etc., why wouldn’t they include the lion, giraffe, or elephant in the conversation? Would it be because Adam and Eve were arbitrary and selfish, or that the animals simply couldn’t comprehend and had nothing to offer to the conversation? This is why Lucifer was not included in the counsels between Christ and His Father in heaven. After all, which is a bigger intelligence gap, that between man and a lion, or that between a created being and God?

When we understand things in this way the Bible makes so much more sense and science harmonizes perfectly. Genesis is the account of creation of earth, not the entire universe. In the context of Lucifer’s polemic – war of false allegations against God, Jesus goes to a small corner of the Milky Way and begins terraforming of a black hole into a planet teeming with life. This is described in the first few chapters of Genesis. On day one the black hole dissipates, and light from the rest of space is seen “let there be light.” And on day four, God makes the sun, moon and stars of our solar system (Venus, Mercury and Mars). The matter from the center of the black hole, which God made billions of years in the past when He created the rest of the universe, He used to make planet earth. Thus the bedrock of earth is billions of years old, the universe itself, with its cosmic radiation, is billions of years old, while life on earth is less than 10,000 years old.

Satan realized if Adam and Eve fulfilled their purpose in revealing God’s character he would be exposed, so he utilized the same “warfare” tactics on our first parents as he did on angels. He called God’s trustworthiness into question and got them to believe lies. Because when lies are believed love and trust is broken. Our first parents were infected with lies about God, which resulted in love and trust being broken, and fear and selfishness, a.k.a. survival of the fittest, being established in humankind and planet earth. Christ came in order to reverse all of this and restore mankind back to God’s original design!

Yes, we are at war, and the battlefield is the mind, and the issue centers on the trustworthiness of God Himself! As Jesus said, life eternal is knowing God, and the truth about God will set us free from the lies of Satan (John 17:3, 8:32). It is our privilege to know the truth about God and share that truth with others to lighten the world with the true knowledge of God and prepare for Christ’s return!

On this Thanksgiving day in the US, I give thanks to God for who He is, and all He has done to reveal the truth, win us back to trust, and restore His love into our hearts!

Email me the blog whenever a new one is published.

Donate online, securely via PayPal using your credit or debit card (no PayPal account needed, unless you want to set up a monthly, recurring payment).


cancel recurring payment

 

Want to use zelle instead?
See how on our
Support and Donations page.

Upcoming Events

calendar

Testimonial Post Slider

Testimony 56

I cannot thank you enough for opening my understanding to the beautiful truth of God’s Law of Love and how it applies to everything. I have been a Christian for over forty years, but I feel like I am only now seeing with my eyes open. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!!

Tammy Cinzio, Australia

 

Testimony 28

I have been following your Bible study class for about a year now. I must say I am impressed with how your ministry has grown. I took it upon myself to listen to all your lesson podcasts from the past and they have both enriched me physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually. I have learnt a lot from this class. I have also noticed how the class has grown in spiritual strength. One of the things that benefited me is that now I am not afraid of God. I use to be, but now it has melted away. The second thing is that you helped me to have a real life relationship with God. Now He is my friend that was always there and I love having him with me all the time. Thirdly, because of this class, it inspired me to take over and lead a class. I have called it “Let Us Reason Together,” adapting your inquisitive style and creating a class of free thinkers.

T. Banda, Malawi, Africa

 

Testimony 51

I Love This Ministry!!!!!!! I see first hand how this message is desperately needed, how erroneous beliefs about God and His Character negatively affect humanity at every level. I thank God for your ministry, as I was searching on my own and was discovering some of your same beliefs and was blown away when I found your ministry. I know you hear it all the time, but it is truly life changing. May God continue to reveal His Will to you and Bless you!

Eric S., Sanford, FL, USA

 

Testimony 9

I really enjoy with you the view of a gracious God. Thank you for sharing the work you are allowing the Lord to do in you.

L., Queensland, Australia

 

Testimony 63

I’ve been very blessed by “The God Shaped Brain” and this ministry, through video and podcast, over the last few years. It’s truly opened up my eyes more to the truth about God and the importance of that truth in the present world. The message is so inviting, freeing and enlightening and MORE people need to know about it. I believe it is the last message that can truly, not only prepare a people for salvation and translation, but vindicate the character of God.

Michael V., Yonkers, NY, USA

 

Testimony 30

God lead me to your book “The God-Shaped Brain” while I was searching for another book about the brain and then to your interview about your book on HeartWise Ministries [where] I found out about [Come And Reason Ministries]. I’m now devouring the webcasts of your Bible studies. I have been so greatly blessed and I thank God so much for your courage to speak the Truth in love no matter what. Listening to you contrast the two opposing systems (laws) and digging deep to unearth the hidden treasures in the Bible makes me so incredibly happy and I feel very blessed to be part of your Bible Study Group although I live far away. I am just so excited that there is a group of people that is spreading the Truth about the character of God and it saddens me how few realize what our Father in Heaven is really like.

Kessy B., Australia

 

Testimony 69

After reading your book, ‘Could It Be This Simple,’ someone was explaining Christianity in a way that made sense to me for the first time in my life. One morning, I simply prayed “I’m sorry and I love you.” As soon as I silently said that, I could literally feel God’s presence and light flood down on me from above and fill me up with love and joy. I sat there crying my eyes out, because I was so overpowered with this feeling of love and joy. It was just so incredible. I hope that more people can read this book and get a blessing from it. It’s really amazing.

Rachael H.

Testimony 41

I have been blessed by your ministry. I have experienced personally, and deeply resonate with, the God of love and the beautiful picture of God’s character that you present. I have seen your seminar series on YouTube, read ‘The Journal of the Watcher’ book, used your mobile app, and also listen/study the bible study lesson with you each week. I concur with many of the thoughts and perspectives that you share. I understand your conclusions on natural laws vs imposed law and the legal/penal substitution (incorrect diagnosis). This makes perfect sense to me.

Bless you for all you do.

Melissa L.

 

Testimony 10

I personally download and listen to each of Come And Reason Ministries Bible study class lessons and PDF study notes to use when teaching my class. Really appreciate the class especially when Dr. Jennings is teaching. Thank God there are persons like him doing His work and traveling to share His beliefs.

B. L.M., North Plains, OR, USA

 

Testimony 71

When I was 9 years old, I remember setting at our devotional table with a hunger and thirst for God that wanted more, deeper, BETTER. I can remember literally crying and pounding on the table, “I know these teachers didn’t mean to give us error. They taught what THEY had been TAUGHT, but didn’t ANYBODY READ THE BOOK?!?!?” It mattered to me then. It mattered to me as a teenager. It matters now as I teach bible classes. It didn’t have to be so hard as I watched so many give up and lay God’s great plan and gift of salvation aside as being “impossible.” Then, a friend sent me a link to Come And Reason’s website. I grew excited. YES! FINALLY! Then another friend told me to stay away, saying her son had just broken up with a girl because she was involved with Come And Reason and that “Tim Jennings preaches a false gospel.” But, AFTER many years of developing an authentic and, dare I say FUN relationship with Jesus, through the Holy Spirit I see this message has been around a LONG time, since the apostle Paul, Ellen White, Graham Maxwell, Ray Foucher, and yourself (though I admit, you’ve made me back up, rewind and replay the clips, and get out my well-worn Bible on a few things.) I’m so thankful I have found LIGHT during these DARK days. I am not alone.

Vicki DiNitto

Testimony 64

I’ve been reading the bible and walking with Jesus since I was around 16. I’m 42 now. I’ve mostly been alone in my walk although I went to several churches in different denominations. For the past 3 years God has been showing me His character of agape. It’s been a blessing and changed how I view God and my walk with Jesus. About a year ago I came across the power of love and the principles of design law. These teachings changed how I read scripture and have been such a beautiful blessing. I’m very excited and grateful for these truths. We share these truths of agape, design law and the reality of the principles of the two trees in the garden of Eden with people on Facebook and YouTube. People all over are learning to trust God and His agape design law which makes life possible. Thank you for everything you shared with me. May God continue to bless your ministry and lives.

Bradley M., Hinsdale, NY, USA

 

Testimony 5

We listen to your bible studies lessons in our class in Montana. You actually were the main reason I decided to get a laptop, so I can go to your site and listen, read, learn, and print the class notes. I am so grateful to learn the correct view of God and his character. Now, to just have others have an interest in knowing, so I can share it with them. Good thoughts your way.

R. N., MT, USA

 

Testimony 50

After coming into contact with Come And Reason Ministries, I can finally say that many of my unanswered questions have fallen into place. I discovered that my view of God’s Law was “imposed laws and rules” with “imposed punishments” and that this was the major culprit of my many unanswered questions. Thanks be to God for using you and those around you to help us who have struggled with this “infection” of thought. I have now rejected the “imposed law” concept to fully embrace “Design Law”… to look thru “Design Law,” instead of “imposed law,” is a relief.

Viliami L., Australia

 

Testimony 68

Your message of design law vs imperial law is so uplifting and makes so much sense- it is a game changer for me. The fact that Jesus’s death is not a big payment by an angry God is , quite frankly, a relief.

Laura G., London, Ontario, Canada

 

Testimony 44

We were given a gift of the DVD set, “God and Your Brain,” and we just finished watching it. The truths in this are so powerful and truly an answer to a prayer. We’re seeing hope where once we thought God wasn’t answering our prayers to be free of certain mindsets. He answered with these DVDs and we are hungry for more. Thank you!

Daniel T., Easley, SC, USA