Call Us: 423 661-4734 | Email: requests@comeandreason.com      
Response to Quotes in the Book, Confrontation

Response to Quotes in the Book, Confrontation

I read the book called “Confrontation.” How do you understand the following statement: “The Majesty of heaven, through love and pity for fallen man, proposed to become his substitute and surety. He would bear man’s guilt. He would take the wrath of His Father upon Himself, which otherwise would have fallen upon man because of his disobedience.

The law of God was unalterable. It could not be abolished, nor yield the smallest part of its claim, to meet man in his fallen state.” Confrontation p. 16

E.

A second person wrote:

I am wondering if you have more information and maybe an explanation on the Study Guide quote on page 70 [for] Friday, November 21, 2008.  “Christ’s work was to reconcile man to God through His human nature, and God to man through His divine nature”  Confrontation. p. 38

I have a problem with the last part of the sentence. 

H.


To E let me say, please reread my post from last week entitled Christ Our Substitute.

Christ did become mankind’s substitute when He took upon Himself the responsibility to, in His humanity, complete the mission Adam was created to fulfill – reveal the truth about God, and when He reversed all the damage that sin had caused humanity. He overcame the infection of fear and selfishness (sin) and restored God’s love perfectly into humanity. He is now the source of salvation to all who obey Him (Heb 5:8).  Bearing man’s guilt is the same as taking our condition, our situation, our position, our infirmity, our terminal condition, our sick state (Isa 53:4).  Christ took our place for the purpose of curing our condition.

The wrath of God is described throughout the Bible. In Romans 1:18 Paul says “The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness.” The Greek in this text is active present-tense, as in today, in Paul’s day, not one day in the future at the end of time. The wrath of God was happening in Paul’s day and Paul tells us in verses 24, 26, and 28 what God’s wrath actually is. He states, because of their persistent rejection of truth, because of their refusal to open their hearts, God “let’s them go” and “gives them up” to reap what they have chosen. God’s wrath is the act of giving up on them, stopping His passionate pursuit for their salvation. It is Love relinquishing His lover to her self-destructive choice (for more Bible examples of God’s wrath see my blog, The Question of Punishment Part 2).

When we understand wrath correctly, then we can see that the wrath of the Father fell on His Son when the Father “gave up” Christ at the Cross. “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me.” This letting go, this giving up to reap what one has ultimately chosen, is God’s wrath. Paul confirms this in Romans 4:25 when he uses the exact same Greek word to describe God’s action toward Christ as he did in chapter 1:24,26,28 to describe God’s action toward the unrepentant. Christ was “let go” by God to experience what Christ had chosen, to be our Savior, to overcome selfishness with love, to go through the Cross! And because of Christ, our condition now has a remedy. We can be cured and therefore God will not “let go” anyone who accepts Christ’s victory in their life!

The reason God’s law could not be altered is because the law of love is the template, the base code, the operating system, the life principle that all life is designed, created, and built to operate upon. There is no other way for life to exist in God’s universe. To change the law would be to kill everything in the universe, thus the law cannot change. Humanity’s operating system, our character, and our methods, motives, and principles must be brought back into harmony with the law of love. This is what Christ did for us!


To H, thanks for your question.

Regarding reconciliation, Christ came to restore mankind back into God’s original ideal and thus reunite mankind with God. This is what I believe the author meant in the first part of the quote where Christ reconciled man to God in His human nature.

I understand the last part of the quote to mean that in Christ, God’s divine nature was united with humanity, thus bringing God to man, because man could not get to God. Remember the old song, “He came down to my level because I couldn’t get up to His”? I believe the author in this passage is referring to Christ bringing God’s very nature to humanity, because we couldn’t, in our fallen state, reach or unify ourselves to God.

Any idea or teaching that Christ was “working on the Father” to influence Him, to assuage the wrath of the Father, and to get the Father to be forgiving etc. is not supported by the Bible. Thus, the author, if understood to be in harmony with the Bible, cannot be suggesting any type of appeasement, expiation, or action Christ took in the past, present, or future that in any way changes God.

Bible evidence to support this would include:

  • Jesus will not pray (ask) His Father for us, because the Father Himself loves us.  John 16:26
  • God is for us, God justifies us, and if this isn’t good enough, don’t worry… Christ, in addition to the Father, is interceding for us.  Romans 8:31-34
  • Jesus is an exact representation of the Father.  Hebrews 1:3
  • God loved us so much They (all three) initiated the plan of salvation.  John 3:16

In summary, Jesus is the member of the Godhead through whom God could reach mankind with His saving love. Jesus was the means through whom God could reveal the truth about Himself in order to win us back to trust.  And further, Jesus was the means through whom God restored His law of love back into the human species, thus saving, healing, recreating, and redeeming this creation!
 

Email me the blog whenever a new one is published.

Donate online, securely via PayPal using your credit or debit card (no PayPal account needed, unless you want to set up a monthly, recurring payment).


cancel recurring payment

 

Want to use zelle instead?
See how on our
Support and Donations page.

Upcoming Events

calendar

Testimonial Post Slider

Testimony 28

I have been following your Bible study class for about a year now. I must say I am impressed with how your ministry has grown. I took it upon myself to listen to all your lesson podcasts from the past and they have both enriched me physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually. I have learnt a lot from this class. I have also noticed how the class has grown in spiritual strength. One of the things that benefited me is that now I am not afraid of God. I use to be, but now it has melted away. The second thing is that you helped me to have a real life relationship with God. Now He is my friend that was always there and I love having him with me all the time. Thirdly, because of this class, it inspired me to take over and lead a class. I have called it “Let Us Reason Together,” adapting your inquisitive style and creating a class of free thinkers.

T. Banda, Malawi, Africa

 

Testimony 32

The message [of Come And Reason Ministries is] for all Christians (and those who may become Christians) and not just Adventists or any other group. It is difficult to imagine why any [anyone] with intellectual and spiritual honesty could find fault with the way you explained the healing substitution concepts and the truth about God’s character, though I know some will reject and criticize. On behalf of those in our group near Tacoma, WA, thank you and your staff for all of the hard work and for sharing the Gospel in this manner. God’s message of healing love will be carried to the whole world and then Jesus will come – He promised it.

Terry U., Tacoma, WA, USA

 

Testimony 61

I grew up in a prominent protestant church and had what I like to call religious anxiety. I’ve always had questions about God and Salvation that no one could seem to answer.  I didn’t know how to find resolution. During 2020, at the height of my anxiety, I fell to my knees and begged God to show me truth and light and to give me the hope that I’ve been longing for. Days later, I stumbled upon your online videos and it was like a veil was lifted and EVERYTHING made sense! For the first time in my almost 39 years of life, my religious/spiritual anxiety has lessened. I feel a sense of freedom and peace I’ve NEVER had before… and it’s all because my view of God has changed. Thank you!

Ashleighn C.

 

Testimony 41

I have been blessed by your ministry. I have experienced personally, and deeply resonate with, the God of love and the beautiful picture of God’s character that you present. I have seen your seminar series on YouTube, read ‘The Journal of the Watcher’ book, used your mobile app, and also listen/study the bible study lesson with you each week. I concur with many of the thoughts and perspectives that you share. I understand your conclusions on natural laws vs imposed law and the legal/penal substitution (incorrect diagnosis). This makes perfect sense to me.

Bless you for all you do.

Melissa L.

 

Testimony 39

[This ministry is the] biggest blessing I have ever received! Your DVDs and lessons could not have come at a better time in my life. I have experienced in the past year many difficulties that, if it wasn’t for this wonderful view of God that I have discovered through this ministry, I would not have been able to respond in love and forgiveness. My heart is being transformed everyday by the Calvary-looking God you teach. Hallelujah!! I have tears in my eyes as I write, because my life has taken a complete turn from where I was heading.

I am from Central America. Most of my family is scattered in different parts of the world and all have the same view of God that I had growing up; a distant, exacting, and ready-to-punish-us-with-tragedy type of God. So, I have been translating lessons for my family and, to my surprise, they have also been sharing them with others! I can already see the difference. My brother has often said, “Thank you for sharing, I have never heard it this way!” My other family members are taking an amazing turn from a message of “repent or burn” towards a loving God, pleading to us that we won’t reject him because he loves us eternally.

Bless you for all you do.

Sofia S., Ashfield, MA, USA

 

Testimony 53

I was so blessed by a friend who gave me your book, “The God Shaped Brain,” while I was sitting in church asking God to please help me learn more about Him and help me not to be so confused and scared. That was about 2 years ago. Your books have helped me to love God even more. I’m not confused or scared anymore! I have listened to all of your bible study classes and feel like I know the wonderful people that attend every week. Thank you for all that you’re doing in spreading the true message about God and His law of love. God bless you and your whole class.

Elssy P., Modesto, CA, USA

 

Testimony 23

I would just like to add my voice to the many people who, I believe, must have contacted you to express their appreciation for the “Healing the Mind” DVDs. I’ve been listening to your Bible study class discussions for many years and I’ve been personally blessed by your research and teaching about the character of God.

L. G., Oakland, MI, USA

 

Testimony 33

I was invited over a friend’s house to see the “God and Your Brain” seminar today. I became [a christian] 36 years ago at the age of 19, but have struggled with the concept of God taking His ‘pound of flesh’ out on His Son to be appeased. Wow. Your seminar has been an incredible revelation and breath of reason and fresh air! I have your book, “The God Shaped Brain,” and it is SO eye opening. Finally, after 36 years enlightenment has come! Praise the Good Lord! What can I say, but that the Real Gospel is truly “Good News!” Thank you for your efforts in giving the Gospel a clear sound!

Paul C.,  Springfield, MA, USA

 

Testimony 58

I have been watching your videos in The Power of Love seminar and I must say these have liberated me and have improved my relationship with the Lord. I am no longer terrified of him as I was before following your teachings.

Thando N., South Africa

 

Testimony 21

I am absolutly on fire with the message at Come and Reason! I can’t get enough! I’ve read your book, blog, and articles. I’ve listened to your Bible study podcasts, your radio show, and your series – all excellent! It wasn’t until the past couple of years that I have I like I’m becoming “healthy,” with more to share with others than just beasts and commandments! I used to be a Bible worker and preached when the pastors were gone until I had had enough. I didnt realize at the time what the problem was, but i know now… the message wasn’t properly focused. Now my flame is rekindled. All of your little examples are so perfect in explaining something “complicated” and making it easily understood! Now I’m trying to shape it into a life changing evangelistic series! Thank you!

M.T., USA

 

Testimony 3

My husband is a pastor and I listen to your lesson almost every week. Thank you for helping me in my study life and to help me love the “real” God more.

C. F., NC, USA

 

Testimony 25

I just want to say thank you so much for your conversations via YouTube. I regularly tune in to your lectures, “Let’s Talk” sessions, and many others. Through these I’ve found greater depth and meaning to God’s word. Thanks for all that you do and please continue. I’m currently working in the middle of Silicon Valley at Stanford University. I feel like God really has me in the right place right now and I’m sensing that your teachings might be part of it.

B. F., Silicon Valley, CA, USA

 

Testimony 17

The blessings of clarity and understanding you and your class inspire me to take from the word of God have impressed upon me so greatly the true, loving character of our Creator. I have found amazing freedom and joy through building a stronger, more intentional relationship with Him. What is new is that this is now a relationship built on love, reverence and respect rather than fear and obligation, and as such my eyes have been slammed OPEN as I am continually impressed by the manifestations of God’s true character in His provisions for fallen man.

T.E.H., Salt Lake City, UT, USA

 

Testimony 67

I was introduced to Come And Reason by a friend of my mother-in-law, who gave me several CD’s of Dr. Jennings. The clarity of the message and recognition that God’s is a God of love was so clear, advancing beyond Dr. Maxwell’s message. However, grappled with Maxwell saying God used emergency measures for the fallen world. Now after several years of being a regular listener of the Come And Reasoning bible study class and attending Jennings’ meetings in Dallas/Fort Worth, TX, things are becoming clearer for me. Design law versus imposed law has added so much to my personal understanding of theology. This message has really impacted my work in counseling so many people miserable because they are searching for and trusting human governments to create order and peace or believing in a God who says love Me or I will kill you. I am grateful that I have an alternative view to offer my clients that makes sense. I teach a bible study class on a semi-regular basis and I value the materials that Come And Reason so freely offers to aid me in presenting this vital message. Thank you for continuing to provide advancement in our very limited understanding of a Infinite God that is rational and believable.

Dr. Roger D, Arlington, TX, USA

 

Testimony 31

It was very touching to hear the testimony of your class share how viewing God’s true character has changed their lives. My feelings are the same – there is so much freedom in knowing that God LOVES me – regardless of my… just, REGARDLESS! I’m still blown away by the true gospel, the fact that God is not ready to strike us when we fail. He is not arbitrary. He simply loves us and warns of the natural consequences because He can’t stand to see us suffer. I AM IN LOVE WITH THIS GOD!!!

Ceil V.,  UT, USA