Call Us: 423 661-4734 | Email: requests@comeandreason.com      
Response to Quotes in the Book, Confrontation

Response to Quotes in the Book, Confrontation

I read the book called “Confrontation.” How do you understand the following statement: “The Majesty of heaven, through love and pity for fallen man, proposed to become his substitute and surety. He would bear man’s guilt. He would take the wrath of His Father upon Himself, which otherwise would have fallen upon man because of his disobedience.

The law of God was unalterable. It could not be abolished, nor yield the smallest part of its claim, to meet man in his fallen state.” Confrontation p. 16

E.

A second person wrote:

I am wondering if you have more information and maybe an explanation on the Study Guide quote on page 70 [for] Friday, November 21, 2008.  “Christ’s work was to reconcile man to God through His human nature, and God to man through His divine nature”  Confrontation. p. 38

I have a problem with the last part of the sentence. 

H.


To E let me say, please reread my post from last week entitled Christ Our Substitute.

Christ did become mankind’s substitute when He took upon Himself the responsibility to, in His humanity, complete the mission Adam was created to fulfill – reveal the truth about God, and when He reversed all the damage that sin had caused humanity. He overcame the infection of fear and selfishness (sin) and restored God’s love perfectly into humanity. He is now the source of salvation to all who obey Him (Heb 5:8).  Bearing man’s guilt is the same as taking our condition, our situation, our position, our infirmity, our terminal condition, our sick state (Isa 53:4).  Christ took our place for the purpose of curing our condition.

The wrath of God is described throughout the Bible. In Romans 1:18 Paul says “The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness.” The Greek in this text is active present-tense, as in today, in Paul’s day, not one day in the future at the end of time. The wrath of God was happening in Paul’s day and Paul tells us in verses 24, 26, and 28 what God’s wrath actually is. He states, because of their persistent rejection of truth, because of their refusal to open their hearts, God “let’s them go” and “gives them up” to reap what they have chosen. God’s wrath is the act of giving up on them, stopping His passionate pursuit for their salvation. It is Love relinquishing His lover to her self-destructive choice (for more Bible examples of God’s wrath see my blog, The Question of Punishment Part 2).

When we understand wrath correctly, then we can see that the wrath of the Father fell on His Son when the Father “gave up” Christ at the Cross. “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me.” This letting go, this giving up to reap what one has ultimately chosen, is God’s wrath. Paul confirms this in Romans 4:25 when he uses the exact same Greek word to describe God’s action toward Christ as he did in chapter 1:24,26,28 to describe God’s action toward the unrepentant. Christ was “let go” by God to experience what Christ had chosen, to be our Savior, to overcome selfishness with love, to go through the Cross! And because of Christ, our condition now has a remedy. We can be cured and therefore God will not “let go” anyone who accepts Christ’s victory in their life!

The reason God’s law could not be altered is because the law of love is the template, the base code, the operating system, the life principle that all life is designed, created, and built to operate upon. There is no other way for life to exist in God’s universe. To change the law would be to kill everything in the universe, thus the law cannot change. Humanity’s operating system, our character, and our methods, motives, and principles must be brought back into harmony with the law of love. This is what Christ did for us!


To H, thanks for your question.

Regarding reconciliation, Christ came to restore mankind back into God’s original ideal and thus reunite mankind with God. This is what I believe the author meant in the first part of the quote where Christ reconciled man to God in His human nature.

I understand the last part of the quote to mean that in Christ, God’s divine nature was united with humanity, thus bringing God to man, because man could not get to God. Remember the old song, “He came down to my level because I couldn’t get up to His”? I believe the author in this passage is referring to Christ bringing God’s very nature to humanity, because we couldn’t, in our fallen state, reach or unify ourselves to God.

Any idea or teaching that Christ was “working on the Father” to influence Him, to assuage the wrath of the Father, and to get the Father to be forgiving etc. is not supported by the Bible. Thus, the author, if understood to be in harmony with the Bible, cannot be suggesting any type of appeasement, expiation, or action Christ took in the past, present, or future that in any way changes God.

Bible evidence to support this would include:

  • Jesus will not pray (ask) His Father for us, because the Father Himself loves us.  John 16:26
  • God is for us, God justifies us, and if this isn’t good enough, don’t worry… Christ, in addition to the Father, is interceding for us.  Romans 8:31-34
  • Jesus is an exact representation of the Father.  Hebrews 1:3
  • God loved us so much They (all three) initiated the plan of salvation.  John 3:16

In summary, Jesus is the member of the Godhead through whom God could reach mankind with His saving love. Jesus was the means through whom God could reveal the truth about Himself in order to win us back to trust.  And further, Jesus was the means through whom God restored His law of love back into the human species, thus saving, healing, recreating, and redeeming this creation!
 

Email me the blog whenever a new one is published.

Donate online, securely via PayPal using your credit or debit card (no PayPal account needed, unless you want to set up a monthly, recurring payment).


cancel recurring payment

 

Want to use zelle instead?
See how on our
Support and Donations page.

Upcoming Events

calendar

Testimonial Post Slider

Testimony 71

When I was 9 years old, I remember setting at our devotional table with a hunger and thirst for God that wanted more, deeper, BETTER. I can remember literally crying and pounding on the table, “I know these teachers didn’t mean to give us error. They taught what THEY had been TAUGHT, but didn’t ANYBODY READ THE BOOK?!?!?” It mattered to me then. It mattered to me as a teenager. It matters now as I teach bible classes. It didn’t have to be so hard as I watched so many give up and lay God’s great plan and gift of salvation aside as being “impossible.” Then, a friend sent me a link to Come And Reason’s website. I grew excited. YES! FINALLY! Then another friend told me to stay away, saying her son had just broken up with a girl because she was involved with Come And Reason and that “Tim Jennings preaches a false gospel.” But, AFTER many years of developing an authentic and, dare I say FUN relationship with Jesus, through the Holy Spirit I see this message has been around a LONG time, since the apostle Paul, Ellen White, Graham Maxwell, Ray Foucher, and yourself (though I admit, you’ve made me back up, rewind and replay the clips, and get out my well-worn Bible on a few things.) I’m so thankful I have found LIGHT during these DARK days. I am not alone.

Vicki DiNitto

Testimony 9

I really enjoy with you the view of a gracious God. Thank you for sharing the work you are allowing the Lord to do in you.

L., Queensland, Australia

 

Testimony 2

I continue to enjoy your lessons every week. The more that I research your conclusions, the more I am convinced that the Holy Spirit has lead you to distill out the essence of human redemption. Thank you for your courageous stand for the truth.

S. G., TX, USA

 

Testimony 76

Warm greetings from Tanzania! I just wanted to take a moment to thank you and your team at Come And Reason Ministries for the amazing work you do. Your teachings have opened my eyes to deep biblical truths and how to live them out in real life. I started following the ministry back in 2018, and ever since, my walk with God has grown so much stronger. I’ve found freedom from fear-based faith and now live with more peace and trust in Him. I’ve also been sharing what I’ve learned, especially through Bible School discussions. Your lessons are so insightful and well-explained that I try not to miss a single one. May God continue to bless the work you’re doing.
Elisha M., Tanzania, Africa

Testimony 53

I was so blessed by a friend who gave me your book, “The God Shaped Brain,” while I was sitting in church asking God to please help me learn more about Him and help me not to be so confused and scared. That was about 2 years ago. Your books have helped me to love God even more. I’m not confused or scared anymore! I have listened to all of your bible study classes and feel like I know the wonderful people that attend every week. Thank you for all that you’re doing in spreading the true message about God and His law of love. God bless you and your whole class.

Elssy P., Modesto, CA, USA

 

Testimony 8

Thank you for the ministry you are sharing with us, it is a real blessing to us and especially to my husband and myself! You are encouraging us to think for ourselves and not just to except everything, without thinking it through, with God’s word!

M.K., USA

 

Testimony 58

I have been watching your videos in The Power of Love seminar and I must say these have liberated me and have improved my relationship with the Lord. I am no longer terrified of him as I was before following your teachings.

Thando N., South Africa

 

Testimony 12

I have been really blessed reading your response to the various questions on your site.

K.C., OH, USA

 

Testimony 40

I was brought up in a different faith and have been petrified my whole life of God. I believed that I would burn in hell for eternity. When I was 12 I started pursuing the things of this world, but for the next 45 years the Spirit was always calling me, as I knew there was a God through nature. I could see the vast sea of stars in the universe and knew there was something bigger out there. Five years ago, through a Revelation seminar, I was blessed to learn about God’s character and government.

Then I found Come and Reason Ministries and have come under some extreme pressure when I speak about the ministry. One time a member sent me an internet article titled “Whats wrong with Tim Jennings?” I asked her what she thought of it and she said “I don’t know, I didn’t read it.”

I have always wanted to find out for myself the truth about God, so I stayed with the Design Law construct and have been liberated to understand the big picture. Once we consider Design Law, all other Bible stories and prophecies seem to fit perfectly. It is truly beautiful to see people grasping how God operates this Universe of Love and the liberation it has provided in their lives. It blows my mind to see how consistent Design law is with what our founders believed. I hear statements like “This makes so much sense.”

Tom W., Mt. Pleasant, MI, USA

 

Testimony 34

I was introduced to Come and Reason Ministries by accident, via a passing comment made in a bible study class we were visiting. I checked this website out and my life was changed. The understanding of the truth of God’s character, and how we apply it, is so right. The tricky part is consistently applying which “lens” to look through. As I began to understand, I started sharing the basics of this understanding with a discussion group I was leading and, suddenly, a lot of things started to make sense that never used to. At the same time, I enjoyed an amazing opportunity. I was able to conduct a full bible study at WORK! What an amazing experience! It is such a joy to share the truth about God and to share how it all fits in the war between God and Satan. So many people benefit when we have a correct understanding about how God works and who He really is! Thank you for this transformational understanding. Keep up the good work! God Bless you!

Tony P., CA, USA

 

Testimony 25

I just want to say thank you so much for your conversations via YouTube. I regularly tune in to your lectures, “Let’s Talk” sessions, and many others. Through these I’ve found greater depth and meaning to God’s word. Thanks for all that you do and please continue. I’m currently working in the middle of Silicon Valley at Stanford University. I feel like God really has me in the right place right now and I’m sensing that your teachings might be part of it.

B. F., Silicon Valley, CA, USA

 

Testimony 5

We listen to your bible studies lessons in our class in Montana. You actually were the main reason I decided to get a laptop, so I can go to your site and listen, read, learn, and print the class notes. I am so grateful to learn the correct view of God and his character. Now, to just have others have an interest in knowing, so I can share it with them. Good thoughts your way.

R. N., MT, USA

 

Testimony 54

I had a lot of pressure, as a pastor’s kid, to conform and be “good.” I was good at being “good.” I thought my life was going along well until it all started falling apart and I could not figure out why! In my search for “why is this happening to me, God?” I came across your book, “Could it be this Simple,” and God started revealing to me the many distortions I held about His character, His principles, and how He has designed His universe to operate. I remember thinking, “Wow, I have had this all backwards.” I was happy and angry all at the same time. Happy to have the light of truth break through the darkness, revealing a wonderful, beautiful way of understanding God and His plan for His children, and angry, because I felt deceived and cheated by the church, my family, and myself!

My heart thrills when I listen to your bible study lessons. Literally I have gone from death to life. It is a journey I look forward to every day, as God reveals areas this distortion affects. Praise GOD! I will ever be grateful to God for this ministry and your cooperation with the Spirit!

Karen S., Portal, AZ, USA

 

Testimony 44

We were given a gift of the DVD set, “God and Your Brain,” and we just finished watching it. The truths in this are so powerful and truly an answer to a prayer. We’re seeing hope where once we thought God wasn’t answering our prayers to be free of certain mindsets. He answered with these DVDs and we are hungry for more. Thank you!

Daniel T., Easley, SC, USA

 

Testimony 57

You have helped make sense of thirty two years of confusion. The material you freely provide reorganized so much of my life into such a beautiful pattern that has always been hinted at from within, but misguided with my training and what I was experiencing externally. My filipno parents, who were converted from Catholicism to SDA, were sincere and did their best to raise me the right way and I have deep respect for them. However, being immigrants and not understanding the language made for a difficult transition as I was growing up, which also applied to my spiritual growth as I learned the patterns of religion. I have been listening to as many bible study classes and reading blog posts as my time in a work truck will allow, searching for the practical applications of where spirituality and reality meet, and I thank you for helping me find that. You have helped me reach a point in which I can truly say that I love God, that I believe He loves me, and, like David, I delight in His law. God bless.

Emmanuel V., Calgary, AB Canada