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The Flood and the Question of Whether God Kills – Part 2

The Flood and the Question of Whether God Kills – Part 2

In the aftermath of my recent blog,The Flood and the Question of Whether God Kills – Part 1, I received several emails voicing concern, objection, and disagreement. And to those who chose to email me to voice your objections: Thank you!

This is how we learn, and you have caused me to think things through again and re-examine the biblical evidence, and this process has triggered new insights that I had not considered before. Thus, this is a follow-up blog to my first one. If you haven’t read that blog, please do; it lays the foundation for what follows.

One person emailed the following:

I have fully read your article three times in our group we use to share your materials and other materials from other proponents on God’s Character message.

Let’s reason together little by little base on your article on the Flood and see whether we can arrive at a common understanding or not.

First question on the flood and probably Sodom:

If God was merely putting people to sleep, *why did He make it so painful*, such as using flood to drown, fire to roast people alive, including kids? Couldn’t He have used a less painful means? Does God need to use violence and the most fearful events in the whole universe before He can put people to sleep?

Again, why was the flood worldwide and not limited to only the inhabitants of the then world? Why has the flood left huge devastations of our planet and destabilized our ecosystem if God had to merely put the humans to sleep?

The worldwide flood has caused a bad effect on our ecosystem adding up to the scorching sun and causing a lot of suffering and death. With the idea that God’s power is destructive has lead many people to believe that God is the source of death. Aren’t they right to conclude it in that way without the idea of the flood and its subsequent consequences on our ecosystem?

Such great questions! These kinds of questions give us the opportunity to re-examine, reflect, rethink, and reconsider our opinions—and hopefully grow in our understanding of God and His protocols for life.

I would like to begin my answer by suggesting that the questioner introduced an assumption, a proposition, that doesn’t appear to be accurate to the Bible account of Sodom and, therefore, leads to a wrong conclusion: that God made His interventions painful (by roasting people). Yet this simply is not how the story is described. Instead, it is described as a fire so intense that even the buildings were eradicated—meaning it was a vaporization, instantaneous, of all matter—and not slowly “roasting” people. Thus, it was painless. These people had no awareness that they were being vaporized. It would be like the experience of a person standing at the epicenter of a nuclear explosion—they’d feel no pain at all. So if we read this story as God inflicting slow torture or suffering, we introduce a falsehood and mispresent Him.

What about the flood? Drowning in those waters wasn’t instantaneous, so didn’t this cause suffering and didn’t it affect the entire planet, its ecosystem, and all subsequent generations? Yes.

Why? The reason the flood was worldwide was because, according to Genesis 6, the problem was worldwide and, thus, the therapeutic interventions needed to be worldwide.

And what were those therapeutic interventions—besides keeping open the avenue for the Messiah?

 

First Therapeutic Reason for the Flood: Providing Every Opportunity for Repentance

Didn’t God warn, through Noah, for 120 years of a coming flood, of their sinfulness, of their need to repent, of their need to turn to Him for salvation? How did they respond to the message of Noah? Ridicule and rejection. What would allowing the flood to occur over a period of time (rain, fountains of water breaking through, etc.) allow for? Would it allow for some people to reflect and to reconsider? Would the evidence of what was transpiring confirm to them that Noah was right? Would that give the people outside the ark the opportunity to repent? Whether they accept it or not isn’t the question I’m asking here; rather, I’m saying that wouldn’t a God of love give every opportunity for repentance even if that opportunity was physically painful?

Did the thief on the cross have many truths presented to him throughout his life—yet persistently rejected God, pursuing a sinful life until he ended up in a state of suffering leading toward death? Did that situation give him opportunity to reflect and repent, even though he was destined to die at that point?

Thus, the flood was brought not only to keep open the avenue for Messiah, but it also allowed those who refused to get on the ark one final opportunity for repentance and eternal salvation. Just like the thief, their earthly life was going to be over, but their eternal life didn’t have to be.

 

Second Therapeutic Reason for the Flood: Putting Obstacles in the Way of Future Worldwide Apostasy

What were the factors, besides humans being sinful, that contributed to the entire world hardening against God so quickly after Eden? What happens to sinful people when everything is given to them and they don’t have to work for anything? What happens over time to people who are self-indulgent and lead hedonistic lives? What happens if such people live hundreds of years? What influence would such people have on their children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, and multiple generations down?

Would altering the environment to make it harder to survive be a punishment for sin or, rather, a therapeutic intervention that would help slow the corruption of human character? Have you ever heard that “idle hands are the devil’s workshop?”—i.e., useful labor is protective against temptation.

The Edenic-like conditions on the earth prior to the flood permitted more indulgence of the carnal nature and, thus, accelerated the corruption of human character. The changes to the earth by the flood made it harder to put food on the table and, thus, increased the need for useful labor, which also protected people from sinful indulgence.

Further, the changes to the earth resulted in shortening human life from about 900 years to 120 years, which also limited the pace of the spread of evil, as those who hardened their hearts against God could not corrupt as many generations with their influence. So, putting all these variables together, we see a beautiful God of love who acts in mercy and therapeutically to keep open the avenue for Messiah and slow the progress of the disease of sin.

The story of the flood serves as an excellent example of the difference between facts—flood, ecosystem changed, lives shortened—and the interpretation of facts. Satan works to get us to misinterpret the facts in order to distort the character of God. When we return to design law and understand how reality works, we realize that God was not inflicting punishment but was acting therapeutically to heal and save.

If we don’t understand the context of what is actually transpiring in the great controversy, the reality of humanity dying of a terminal condition, of God working to bring the Messiah to save, and Satan working to prevent that plan, then we will misunderstand what we read in the Bible.

Consider observing an ancient battlefield on which you see evil people with swords killing and maiming—sometimes cutting off arms or legs. But on the battlefield, there are also medical personnel who appear to be doing the same thing. They are holding people down, people who are screaming because no anesthesia available, and cutting off their arms and legs (amputating to save the life) or cutting open their bellies (to heal the wounds inflicted). But as the observer, you perceive two groups of people using sharp instruments to cut off limbs and cut into people. You don’t realize the two groups are working toward two different goals. You might wrongly conclude, “My doctor would never use such methods; it is evil.”

This is how I hear the argument of those who deny that God has ever used power to put people to sleep. It fails to incorporate what the action is intended to result in—i.e., the motive—which is to heal and save the species.

God never compels, never coerces, and only uses the methods of truth, love, and liberty. But love does restrain evil in order to protect, and God has done this in many places throughout human history.

 

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Testimony 57

You have helped make sense of thirty two years of confusion. The material you freely provide reorganized so much of my life into such a beautiful pattern that has always been hinted at from within, but misguided with my training and what I was experiencing externally. My filipno parents, who were converted from Catholicism to SDA, were sincere and did their best to raise me the right way and I have deep respect for them. However, being immigrants and not understanding the language made for a difficult transition as I was growing up, which also applied to my spiritual growth as I learned the patterns of religion. I have been listening to as many bible study classes and reading blog posts as my time in a work truck will allow, searching for the practical applications of where spirituality and reality meet, and I thank you for helping me find that. You have helped me reach a point in which I can truly say that I love God, that I believe He loves me, and, like David, I delight in His law. God bless.

Emmanuel V., Calgary, AB Canada

Testimony 54

I had a lot of pressure, as a pastor’s kid, to conform and be “good.” I was good at being “good.” I thought my life was going along well until it all started falling apart and I could not figure out why! In my search for “why is this happening to me, God?” I came across your book, “Could it be this Simple,” and God started revealing to me the many distortions I held about His character, His principles, and how He has designed His universe to operate. I remember thinking, “Wow, I have had this all backwards.” I was happy and angry all at the same time. Happy to have the light of truth break through the darkness, revealing a wonderful, beautiful way of understanding God and His plan for His children, and angry, because I felt deceived and cheated by the church, my family, and myself!

My heart thrills when I listen to your bible study lessons. Literally I have gone from death to life. It is a journey I look forward to every day, as God reveals areas this distortion affects. Praise GOD! I will ever be grateful to God for this ministry and your cooperation with the Spirit!

Karen S., Portal, AZ, USA

 

Testimony 71

When I was 9 years old, I remember setting at our devotional table with a hunger and thirst for God that wanted more, deeper, BETTER. I can remember literally crying and pounding on the table, “I know these teachers didn’t mean to give us error. They taught what THEY had been TAUGHT, but didn’t ANYBODY READ THE BOOK?!?!?” It mattered to me then. It mattered to me as a teenager. It matters now as I teach bible classes. It didn’t have to be so hard as I watched so many give up and lay God’s great plan and gift of salvation aside as being “impossible.” Then, a friend sent me a link to Come And Reason’s website. I grew excited. YES! FINALLY! Then another friend told me to stay away, saying her son had just broken up with a girl because she was involved with Come And Reason and that “Tim Jennings preaches a false gospel.” But, AFTER many years of developing an authentic and, dare I say FUN relationship with Jesus, through the Holy Spirit I see this message has been around a LONG time, since the apostle Paul, Ellen White, Graham Maxwell, Ray Foucher, and yourself (though I admit, you’ve made me back up, rewind and replay the clips, and get out my well-worn Bible on a few things.) I’m so thankful I have found LIGHT during these DARK days. I am not alone.

Vicki DiNitto

Testimony 40

I was brought up in a different faith and have been petrified my whole life of God. I believed that I would burn in hell for eternity. When I was 12 I started pursuing the things of this world, but for the next 45 years the Spirit was always calling me, as I knew there was a God through nature. I could see the vast sea of stars in the universe and knew there was something bigger out there. Five years ago, through a Revelation seminar, I was blessed to learn about God’s character and government.

Then I found Come and Reason Ministries and have come under some extreme pressure when I speak about the ministry. One time a member sent me an internet article titled “Whats wrong with Tim Jennings?” I asked her what she thought of it and she said “I don’t know, I didn’t read it.”

I have always wanted to find out for myself the truth about God, so I stayed with the Design Law construct and have been liberated to understand the big picture. Once we consider Design Law, all other Bible stories and prophecies seem to fit perfectly. It is truly beautiful to see people grasping how God operates this Universe of Love and the liberation it has provided in their lives. It blows my mind to see how consistent Design law is with what our founders believed. I hear statements like “This makes so much sense.”

Tom W., Mt. Pleasant, MI, USA

 

Testimony 60

Just watched watched lesson 10 in the 1st quarter 2021 bible study classs on Isaiah. I want to thank you for your intellectual spirituality; it’s not an oxymoron! From the point of view of a teacher I also enjoy seeing how much personal pleasure you clearly take in not just tasting, but feasting on God’s word – it reminds me of Jeremiah not being able to hold it in! It makes me smile that your cup is so full and overflowing that you make it to Tuesday’s lesson (on a good day). It just goes to show the richness of God’s Word.

God bless the Come and Reason Team from our church here in Great Britain.

Andrew H., Great Britain

 

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We really appreciate your views on the judgment and they make good sense considering our free choice.

Anonymous

 

Testimony 69

After reading your book, ‘Could It Be This Simple,’ someone was explaining Christianity in a way that made sense to me for the first time in my life. One morning, I simply prayed “I’m sorry and I love you.” As soon as I silently said that, I could literally feel God’s presence and light flood down on me from above and fill me up with love and joy. I sat there crying my eyes out, because I was so overpowered with this feeling of love and joy. It was just so incredible. I hope that more people can read this book and get a blessing from it. It’s really amazing.

Rachael H.

Testimony 19

I truly believe that to know who God really is the first step to understand ourselves in a balanced and kind way, so the healing can take place. Your approach really makes sense – Thank you for your ministry!

A.M., Pittsburg, PA, USA

Testimony 62

I would like to express my thanks to the C&R team for creating a platform from which people can learn to trust in God and grow. My life is a witness to the effectiveness of this ministry. Without believing the truth about God as you have shown, I don’t know what my life would be like. I had given up on God helping me with certain sins – it was all useless. Given that the scripture is clear and God is so good, how could I have betrayed him so many times? I was a yo-yo christian; spinning up and down. My faith and enthusiasm was driven by discoveries/threats that prophecy is about to be fulfilled. But when I watched your “Healing the Mind” seminar, it was like a light finally went on. I could see God had no plan to hurt me, the danger came from sin, and that He is working to protect me and strengthen me. Thank you for allowing God to use you. The message God gave C&R saved my life!

Antony N. – Hobart, Australia

 

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I am just writing to say that I have been so blessed by the teachings of Come And Reason Minitries recently. I watched last week’s bible study lesson on Youtube and am thankful that the error in the printed lesson guide you use was pointed out and this week’s study was of equal benefit, if not more so. My understanding of God’s nature has been very confused of late and I am so grateful for clarity in this matter. I have never really fully understood previously how a good God can cause bad things to happen and now I realise that He doesn’t, it’s a natural consequence of sin. May the almighty Father and His Son, our Saviour Jesus Christ, continue to bless your ministry.

Laura P., United Kingdom

 

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Daniel T., Easley, SC, USA

 

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The blessings of clarity and understanding you and your class inspire me to take from the word of God have impressed upon me so greatly the true, loving character of our Creator. I have found amazing freedom and joy through building a stronger, more intentional relationship with Him. What is new is that this is now a relationship built on love, reverence and respect rather than fear and obligation, and as such my eyes have been slammed OPEN as I am continually impressed by the manifestations of God’s true character in His provisions for fallen man.

T.E.H., Salt Lake City, UT, USA

 

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Testimony 32

The message [of Come And Reason Ministries is] for all Christians (and those who may become Christians) and not just Adventists or any other group. It is difficult to imagine why any [anyone] with intellectual and spiritual honesty could find fault with the way you explained the healing substitution concepts and the truth about God’s character, though I know some will reject and criticize. On behalf of those in our group near Tacoma, WA, thank you and your staff for all of the hard work and for sharing the Gospel in this manner. God’s message of healing love will be carried to the whole world and then Jesus will come – He promised it.

Terry U., Tacoma, WA, USA

 

Testimony 68

Your message of design law vs imperial law is so uplifting and makes so much sense- it is a game changer for me. The fact that Jesus’s death is not a big payment by an angry God is , quite frankly, a relief.

Laura G., London, Ontario, Canada