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The Flood and the Question of Whether God Kills – Part 2

The Flood and the Question of Whether God Kills – Part 2

In the aftermath of my recent blog,The Flood and the Question of Whether God Kills – Part 1, I received several emails voicing concern, objection, and disagreement. And to those who chose to email me to voice your objections: Thank you!

This is how we learn, and you have caused me to think things through again and re-examine the biblical evidence, and this process has triggered new insights that I had not considered before. Thus, this is a follow-up blog to my first one. If you haven’t read that blog, please do; it lays the foundation for what follows.

One person emailed the following:

I have fully read your article three times in our group we use to share your materials and other materials from other proponents on God’s Character message.

Let’s reason together little by little base on your article on the Flood and see whether we can arrive at a common understanding or not.

First question on the flood and probably Sodom:

If God was merely putting people to sleep, *why did He make it so painful*, such as using flood to drown, fire to roast people alive, including kids? Couldn’t He have used a less painful means? Does God need to use violence and the most fearful events in the whole universe before He can put people to sleep?

Again, why was the flood worldwide and not limited to only the inhabitants of the then world? Why has the flood left huge devastations of our planet and destabilized our ecosystem if God had to merely put the humans to sleep?

The worldwide flood has caused a bad effect on our ecosystem adding up to the scorching sun and causing a lot of suffering and death. With the idea that God’s power is destructive has lead many people to believe that God is the source of death. Aren’t they right to conclude it in that way without the idea of the flood and its subsequent consequences on our ecosystem?

Such great questions! These kinds of questions give us the opportunity to re-examine, reflect, rethink, and reconsider our opinions—and hopefully grow in our understanding of God and His protocols for life.

I would like to begin my answer by suggesting that the questioner introduced an assumption, a proposition, that doesn’t appear to be accurate to the Bible account of Sodom and, therefore, leads to a wrong conclusion: that God made His interventions painful (by roasting people). Yet this simply is not how the story is described. Instead, it is described as a fire so intense that even the buildings were eradicated—meaning it was a vaporization, instantaneous, of all matter—and not slowly “roasting” people. Thus, it was painless. These people had no awareness that they were being vaporized. It would be like the experience of a person standing at the epicenter of a nuclear explosion—they’d feel no pain at all. So if we read this story as God inflicting slow torture or suffering, we introduce a falsehood and mispresent Him.

What about the flood? Drowning in those waters wasn’t instantaneous, so didn’t this cause suffering and didn’t it affect the entire planet, its ecosystem, and all subsequent generations? Yes.

Why? The reason the flood was worldwide was because, according to Genesis 6, the problem was worldwide and, thus, the therapeutic interventions needed to be worldwide.

And what were those therapeutic interventions—besides keeping open the avenue for the Messiah?

 

First Therapeutic Reason for the Flood: Providing Every Opportunity for Repentance

Didn’t God warn, through Noah, for 120 years of a coming flood, of their sinfulness, of their need to repent, of their need to turn to Him for salvation? How did they respond to the message of Noah? Ridicule and rejection. What would allowing the flood to occur over a period of time (rain, fountains of water breaking through, etc.) allow for? Would it allow for some people to reflect and to reconsider? Would the evidence of what was transpiring confirm to them that Noah was right? Would that give the people outside the ark the opportunity to repent? Whether they accept it or not isn’t the question I’m asking here; rather, I’m saying that wouldn’t a God of love give every opportunity for repentance even if that opportunity was physically painful?

Did the thief on the cross have many truths presented to him throughout his life—yet persistently rejected God, pursuing a sinful life until he ended up in a state of suffering leading toward death? Did that situation give him opportunity to reflect and repent, even though he was destined to die at that point?

Thus, the flood was brought not only to keep open the avenue for Messiah, but it also allowed those who refused to get on the ark one final opportunity for repentance and eternal salvation. Just like the thief, their earthly life was going to be over, but their eternal life didn’t have to be.

 

Second Therapeutic Reason for the Flood: Putting Obstacles in the Way of Future Worldwide Apostasy

What were the factors, besides humans being sinful, that contributed to the entire world hardening against God so quickly after Eden? What happens to sinful people when everything is given to them and they don’t have to work for anything? What happens over time to people who are self-indulgent and lead hedonistic lives? What happens if such people live hundreds of years? What influence would such people have on their children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, and multiple generations down?

Would altering the environment to make it harder to survive be a punishment for sin or, rather, a therapeutic intervention that would help slow the corruption of human character? Have you ever heard that “idle hands are the devil’s workshop?”—i.e., useful labor is protective against temptation.

The Edenic-like conditions on the earth prior to the flood permitted more indulgence of the carnal nature and, thus, accelerated the corruption of human character. The changes to the earth by the flood made it harder to put food on the table and, thus, increased the need for useful labor, which also protected people from sinful indulgence.

Further, the changes to the earth resulted in shortening human life from about 900 years to 120 years, which also limited the pace of the spread of evil, as those who hardened their hearts against God could not corrupt as many generations with their influence. So, putting all these variables together, we see a beautiful God of love who acts in mercy and therapeutically to keep open the avenue for Messiah and slow the progress of the disease of sin.

The story of the flood serves as an excellent example of the difference between facts—flood, ecosystem changed, lives shortened—and the interpretation of facts. Satan works to get us to misinterpret the facts in order to distort the character of God. When we return to design law and understand how reality works, we realize that God was not inflicting punishment but was acting therapeutically to heal and save.

If we don’t understand the context of what is actually transpiring in the great controversy, the reality of humanity dying of a terminal condition, of God working to bring the Messiah to save, and Satan working to prevent that plan, then we will misunderstand what we read in the Bible.

Consider observing an ancient battlefield on which you see evil people with swords killing and maiming—sometimes cutting off arms or legs. But on the battlefield, there are also medical personnel who appear to be doing the same thing. They are holding people down, people who are screaming because no anesthesia available, and cutting off their arms and legs (amputating to save the life) or cutting open their bellies (to heal the wounds inflicted). But as the observer, you perceive two groups of people using sharp instruments to cut off limbs and cut into people. You don’t realize the two groups are working toward two different goals. You might wrongly conclude, “My doctor would never use such methods; it is evil.”

This is how I hear the argument of those who deny that God has ever used power to put people to sleep. It fails to incorporate what the action is intended to result in—i.e., the motive—which is to heal and save the species.

God never compels, never coerces, and only uses the methods of truth, love, and liberty. But love does restrain evil in order to protect, and God has done this in many places throughout human history.

 

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Testimony 71

When I was 9 years old, I remember setting at our devotional table with a hunger and thirst for God that wanted more, deeper, BETTER. I can remember literally crying and pounding on the table, “I know these teachers didn’t mean to give us error. They taught what THEY had been TAUGHT, but didn’t ANYBODY READ THE BOOK?!?!?” It mattered to me then. It mattered to me as a teenager. It matters now as I teach bible classes. It didn’t have to be so hard as I watched so many give up and lay God’s great plan and gift of salvation aside as being “impossible.” Then, a friend sent me a link to Come And Reason’s website. I grew excited. YES! FINALLY! Then another friend told me to stay away, saying her son had just broken up with a girl because she was involved with Come And Reason and that “Tim Jennings preaches a false gospel.” But, AFTER many years of developing an authentic and, dare I say FUN relationship with Jesus, through the Holy Spirit I see this message has been around a LONG time, since the apostle Paul, Ellen White, Graham Maxwell, Ray Foucher, and yourself (though I admit, you’ve made me back up, rewind and replay the clips, and get out my well-worn Bible on a few things.) I’m so thankful I have found LIGHT during these DARK days. I am not alone.

Vicki DiNitto

Testimony 57

You have helped make sense of thirty two years of confusion. The material you freely provide reorganized so much of my life into such a beautiful pattern that has always been hinted at from within, but misguided with my training and what I was experiencing externally. My filipno parents, who were converted from Catholicism to SDA, were sincere and did their best to raise me the right way and I have deep respect for them. However, being immigrants and not understanding the language made for a difficult transition as I was growing up, which also applied to my spiritual growth as I learned the patterns of religion. I have been listening to as many bible study classes and reading blog posts as my time in a work truck will allow, searching for the practical applications of where spirituality and reality meet, and I thank you for helping me find that. You have helped me reach a point in which I can truly say that I love God, that I believe He loves me, and, like David, I delight in His law. God bless.

Emmanuel V., Calgary, AB Canada

Testimony 9

I really enjoy with you the view of a gracious God. Thank you for sharing the work you are allowing the Lord to do in you.

L., Queensland, Australia

 

Testimony 10

I personally download and listen to each of Come And Reason Ministries Bible study class lessons and PDF study notes to use when teaching my class. Really appreciate the class especially when Dr. Jennings is teaching. Thank God there are persons like him doing His work and traveling to share His beliefs.

B. L.M., North Plains, OR, USA

 

Testimony 15

I have been sharing Come And Reason Ministries Bible study lessons with several folk. You have such a beautiful view of the plan of salvation. If we had this message preached when I was young, my generation would still all be in church.

H. R., New Zealand

Testimony 37

Hearing Dr. Jennings’ presentations in person came at a pivotal moment in my spiritual journey that began about nine months ago, when the fault lines inherent in my belief system began to crack under questions that most reasonable people end up asking about God and His nature. These were questions I couldn’t find answers to, and they shook my faith. I was unable let it go any longer and be satisfied. My Christian experience became distant. I was afraid; the fear in me rose like thorns, pushing me away from Jesus. And then someone heard my questions and introduced me to this ministry, and my life has totally changed.

I can tell you that this new, “present truth” message is far grander and life-changing than when I shifted from being an agnostic and then a nominal Christian. It has radically altered my worldview, because it reveals a God that makes sense. It is a revolution. I believe that Dr. Jennings’ message is the final message that must go to the world. If any message could be called “righteousness by faith,” as abused as that term is by the right and the left, this is that message, because Jennings’ biblical message identifies a God who is different, whose character isn’t an impossible contradiction.

I walk this path now without fear. I see people differently, and the Holy Spirit burns in my heart. Many call Dr. Jennings’ message false and compromising, but it isn’t false, because I’ve seen the fruits within my mind and body. It is not compromising, because in this message is the only road to holiness that makes any sense. No longer do I behold a pagan god who is always angry and suspicious. Instead, I behold a God who is freeing and loving, always working for our good, and giving me every reason to love my enemy even to my own death, just as Jesus pleads with us. God is good.

Anthony L., CA, USA

 

Testimony 20

I just wanted to personally thank you for your teachings and insight into scripture. I came across your website via my cousin who suggested I look into “Healing the Mind” information. My youngest daughter has been struggling over the last couple of years and it all came to a head this spring. When I started listening to the “Healing the Mind” lectures my own life began to be transformed. I began sharing with all my daughters the concepts you laid out so clearly. I ordered your book and soaked it up. I just want to say “Thank You!” My walk with the Lord has been refreshed and renewed. Your obedience to the Lord is a blessing to so many.

R. K., Anderson, SC, USA

 

Testimony 46

Over the past couple of years God has been expanding my view of Himself and His character. Along my approximately 40-year journey, I have often had questions, but was hesitant to voice these and step outside the traditionally accepted thinking, for fear of admitting that I may in fact be eternally lost. In the recesses of my thinking has been the thought – if one blindly accepts (which is widely regarded as “real faith”) and does not question, is this really ‘truth?’ I often find it challenging to grapple with very theological ‘speak,’ but Dr. Jennings has a real gift of explaining spiritual concepts with clear practical examples. The weekly discussions are growing my Christian experience and slowly changing my view of how to live as a child of God in today’s complex world. Finally the whole Old Testament sanctuary teaching moved in my mind from fantasy to reality!

Beverly S., South Africa

 

Testimony 51

I Love This Ministry!!!!!!! I see first hand how this message is desperately needed, how erroneous beliefs about God and His Character negatively affect humanity at every level. I thank God for your ministry, as I was searching on my own and was discovering some of your same beliefs and was blown away when I found your ministry. I know you hear it all the time, but it is truly life changing. May God continue to reveal His Will to you and Bless you!

Eric S., Sanford, FL, USA

 

Testimony 12

I have been really blessed reading your response to the various questions on your site.

K.C., OH, USA

 

Testimony 24

I wanted to thank you very much for presenting your understanding of God. I’ve always been troubled by this question: Why did Jesus have to die? Since my conversion I understood that The Father & Jesus are one, I did not have issues with that. But was there not any other way to save us than for Jesus to die? I guess I actually had a question about God – if He is so wise, how come He did not find another way? I did not see the real ‘beauty’  in the cross. Only when you explained the picture in the medical context, Jesus providing medicine for my selfishness, have I started to finally ‘see the light’. Thank you so much. Your seminar, “Healing the Mind,” are absolutely marvelous & have shared them with my family and many other people, including colleagues at work. Thanks, thanks, thanks. May God bless you abundantly in your ministry.

M. W., Australia

 

Testimony 64

I’ve been reading the bible and walking with Jesus since I was around 16. I’m 42 now. I’ve mostly been alone in my walk although I went to several churches in different denominations. For the past 3 years God has been showing me His character of agape. It’s been a blessing and changed how I view God and my walk with Jesus. About a year ago I came across the power of love and the principles of design law. These teachings changed how I read scripture and have been such a beautiful blessing. I’m very excited and grateful for these truths. We share these truths of agape, design law and the reality of the principles of the two trees in the garden of Eden with people on Facebook and YouTube. People all over are learning to trust God and His agape design law which makes life possible. Thank you for everything you shared with me. May God continue to bless your ministry and lives.

Bradley M., Hinsdale, NY, USA

 

Testimony 32

The message [of Come And Reason Ministries is] for all Christians (and those who may become Christians) and not just Adventists or any other group. It is difficult to imagine why any [anyone] with intellectual and spiritual honesty could find fault with the way you explained the healing substitution concepts and the truth about God’s character, though I know some will reject and criticize. On behalf of those in our group near Tacoma, WA, thank you and your staff for all of the hard work and for sharing the Gospel in this manner. God’s message of healing love will be carried to the whole world and then Jesus will come – He promised it.

Terry U., Tacoma, WA, USA

 

Testimony 55

I was born [into the church], then I left it for many years. 10 years ago, I came back, but I could not take the hypocrisy and the lack of answers to the missing pieces. I struggled, but I did not abandon my commitment to know the truth. God is leading me to the simple understanding of his relevance and I am relearning what the church taught me as a youth… that he loves me, that he has led me to a knowledge of him such as I have never known. He is using Dr. Jennings to connect the dots that are now so apparent and hiding in plain sight!

Dean P., Arlington, TX, USA

 

Testimony 60

Just watched watched lesson 10 in the 1st quarter 2021 bible study classs on Isaiah. I want to thank you for your intellectual spirituality; it’s not an oxymoron! From the point of view of a teacher I also enjoy seeing how much personal pleasure you clearly take in not just tasting, but feasting on God’s word – it reminds me of Jeremiah not being able to hold it in! It makes me smile that your cup is so full and overflowing that you make it to Tuesday’s lesson (on a good day). It just goes to show the richness of God’s Word.

God bless the Come and Reason Team from our church here in Great Britain.

Andrew H., Great Britain