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Trinity – More Questions

Trinity – More Questions

I just read your blog on the Trinity and thought everything you said was absolutely true. However, I have often wondered two things:

Number 1 is, if Jesus was not created then why is He subservient to the Father? As far as I understand it The Father is in charge, under him is Jesus and beneath Jesus is the Holy Spirit. Ellen White says that Jesus was uplifted to equality with the Father which was part of what inspired Lucifer’s rebellion. Why would God the Father have to bestow honor upon God the Son to make Him His equal if they are both from eternity past God?

Number 2 is, Why does the Godhead (which is defined by love) have to operate under the same structure of authority as a corporate business or military branch?

M


Thanks for your questions as your question may reflect the way many think about the Godhead. But, I think the idea that Jesus is “subservient” to the Father is a misunderstanding that results from not appreciating God’s character and the way His government works. In God’s economy “whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me and for the gospel will save it” (Mark 8:35), “So the last will be first, and the first will be last.” (Matt 20:16).

God’s kingdom is the kingdom of love and love gives all for the wellbeing of others. Thus Jesus is “exalted” because Jesus surrendered all and gave all for others. This exaltation is not “conferred” by the Father to the Son, but a result of the accomplishment of the Son in perfectly revealing and carrying out the Father’s character and purpose.

A better way to understand it, (recognizing of course that our finite minds are trying to probe the Infinite One so we will inevitably come up short of complete understanding), is that the Godhead voluntarily assumed different roles or functions for the accomplishments of Their purposes (a loving way all share together in giving for Their creation). Any of the three could have assumed any of the functions. We would err in concluding that when one of the three assumes a function that He was not capable of functioning in the role of one of the others.

As I understand their chosen roles, the Father acts as the source of all that is good. The Son is the medium, mediator, advocate, conduit, agent through which the Father reveals Himself or acts and the Holy Spirit is the actualizer or applier of what the Father and Son have achieved. Thus God was in the Son reconciling the world to Himself (2Cor 5:19). Jesus’ work on earth was the acting out of the Father’s heart. His completed mission and victory over sin are applied to the lives of believers by the work of the Holy Spirit. In creation we have the Father as the source, the Son as the architect, designer, and builder and the Spirit as the actualizer or implementer of Their design.

So, with this understanding we realize what Christ meant when He said, “I do nothing of myself.” Christ takes from the Father to fulfill all the Father’s purposes for His universe. In this sense we can see Christ turning to the Father, not to persuade the Father to be kind, but to receive the fullness of the Father’s purpose of love for His creation and carry that purpose out in meaningful action!

Regarding the comments from Ellen White, these are her exact words:

“The King of the universe summoned the heavenly hosts before Him, that in their presence He might set forth the true position of His Son and show the relation He sustained to all created beings. The Son of God shared the Father’s throne, and the glory of the eternal, self-existent One encircled both…. Leaving his place in the immediate presence of the Father, Lucifer went forth to diffuse the spirit of discontent among the angels….The exaltation of the Son of God as equal with the Father was represented as an injustice to Lucifer, who, it was claimed, was also entitled to reverence and honor. …There had been no change in the position or authority of Christ. Lucifer’s envy and misrepresentation and his claims to equality with Christ had made necessary a statement of the true position of the Son of God; but this had been the same from the beginning. Many of the angels were, however, blinded by Lucifer’s deceptions.” PP 37, 38

Finally, the Godhead does not operate like a human corporation or military. Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world.” God’s kingdom of love is not represented by human nations or corporations which are constantly seeking to promote themselves at the expense of others. God sacrifices Himself for others!

Christ Jesus, who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death— even death on a cross! Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name…Philippians 2:6-9

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Testimony 27

Your teachings about our heavenly Father have changed my life. Thank you sooooooo very very much! I know He’s doing some serious healing in my heart and life and I look forward to each new day to learn something new about Him and to just hear you speak about Him. Thank you, forever.

Nancy S.

 

Testimony 31

It was very touching to hear the testimony of your class share how viewing God’s true character has changed their lives. My feelings are the same – there is so much freedom in knowing that God LOVES me – regardless of my… just, REGARDLESS! I’m still blown away by the true gospel, the fact that God is not ready to strike us when we fail. He is not arbitrary. He simply loves us and warns of the natural consequences because He can’t stand to see us suffer. I AM IN LOVE WITH THIS GOD!!!

Ceil V.,  UT, USA

 

Testimony 37

Hearing Dr. Jennings’ presentations in person came at a pivotal moment in my spiritual journey that began about nine months ago, when the fault lines inherent in my belief system began to crack under questions that most reasonable people end up asking about God and His nature. These were questions I couldn’t find answers to, and they shook my faith. I was unable let it go any longer and be satisfied. My Christian experience became distant. I was afraid; the fear in me rose like thorns, pushing me away from Jesus. And then someone heard my questions and introduced me to this ministry, and my life has totally changed.

I can tell you that this new, “present truth” message is far grander and life-changing than when I shifted from being an agnostic and then a nominal Christian. It has radically altered my worldview, because it reveals a God that makes sense. It is a revolution. I believe that Dr. Jennings’ message is the final message that must go to the world. If any message could be called “righteousness by faith,” as abused as that term is by the right and the left, this is that message, because Jennings’ biblical message identifies a God who is different, whose character isn’t an impossible contradiction.

I walk this path now without fear. I see people differently, and the Holy Spirit burns in my heart. Many call Dr. Jennings’ message false and compromising, but it isn’t false, because I’ve seen the fruits within my mind and body. It is not compromising, because in this message is the only road to holiness that makes any sense. No longer do I behold a pagan god who is always angry and suspicious. Instead, I behold a God who is freeing and loving, always working for our good, and giving me every reason to love my enemy even to my own death, just as Jesus pleads with us. God is good.

Anthony L., CA, USA

 

Testimony 53

I was so blessed by a friend who gave me your book, “The God Shaped Brain,” while I was sitting in church asking God to please help me learn more about Him and help me not to be so confused and scared. That was about 2 years ago. Your books have helped me to love God even more. I’m not confused or scared anymore! I have listened to all of your bible study classes and feel like I know the wonderful people that attend every week. Thank you for all that you’re doing in spreading the true message about God and His law of love. God bless you and your whole class.

Elssy P., Modesto, CA, USA

 

Testimony 71

When I was 9 years old, I remember setting at our devotional table with a hunger and thirst for God that wanted more, deeper, BETTER. I can remember literally crying and pounding on the table, “I know these teachers didn’t mean to give us error. They taught what THEY had been TAUGHT, but didn’t ANYBODY READ THE BOOK?!?!?” It mattered to me then. It mattered to me as a teenager. It matters now as I teach bible classes. It didn’t have to be so hard as I watched so many give up and lay God’s great plan and gift of salvation aside as being “impossible.” Then, a friend sent me a link to Come And Reason’s website. I grew excited. YES! FINALLY! Then another friend told me to stay away, saying her son had just broken up with a girl because she was involved with Come And Reason and that “Tim Jennings preaches a false gospel.” But, AFTER many years of developing an authentic and, dare I say FUN relationship with Jesus, through the Holy Spirit I see this message has been around a LONG time, since the apostle Paul, Ellen White, Graham Maxwell, Ray Foucher, and yourself (though I admit, you’ve made me back up, rewind and replay the clips, and get out my well-worn Bible on a few things.) I’m so thankful I have found LIGHT during these DARK days. I am not alone.

Vicki DiNitto

Testimony 35

I am so pleased with the response your message is receiving at my church from the middle-aged to the young adults. I have given out 100 copies of the first two seminars and there are more request every week. One of my [class members] came to me after viewing the series, grateful and impressed with how easy the message was retained. He had been a Seventh-day Adventist in fear all his life, and felt like the scales were removed from his eyes after viewing the seminars. I am so impressed by the change I see in members who have received this message, we are in one accord. However, I am sadden by the negative response of the older people. I am verbally attacked anytime I talk about imposed laws, but I believe my mission is to enlightened everyone I can. I watch your Bible Study Class on YouTube every Friday night and I feel like I am apart of the class. All of you are in one accord and I am so blessed to have found you. I pray that all of you continue to spread this message and I am committed to doing my part.

Clara S., Westfield, MA, USA

 

Testimony 42

I am just writing to say that I have been so blessed by the teachings of Come And Reason Minitries recently. I watched last week’s bible study lesson on Youtube and am thankful that the error in the printed lesson guide you use was pointed out and this week’s study was of equal benefit, if not more so. My understanding of God’s nature has been very confused of late and I am so grateful for clarity in this matter. I have never really fully understood previously how a good God can cause bad things to happen and now I realise that He doesn’t, it’s a natural consequence of sin. May the almighty Father and His Son, our Saviour Jesus Christ, continue to bless your ministry.

Laura P., United Kingdom

 

Testimony 26

Your teachings about our heavenly Father have changed my life. Thank you sooooooo very very much! I know He’s doing some serious healing in my heart and life and I look forward to each new day to learn something new about Him and to just hear you speak about Him. Thank you, forever.

Nancy S.

 

Testimony 7

Ok, so last night I listened to “The Law of Liberty” and “How to Achieve Victory: Freedom, Truth and Spirtual Warfare.” These are both MY ABSOLUTE FAVORITES so far! The logic is just soooooo beautiful. I had to re-listen to them a couple of times. I just want to EXPLODE! (<< we assume with joy and happiness)

N. B., Canada

 

Testimony 18

The Healing the Mind DVD set tarted me on a journey that has changed my relationship with our loving God more significantly than any other study, and brought me to your book and Bible study podcasts, which I now listen to daily, thanks to the availability of archived content on your site and on iTunes.

Anonymous

 

Testimony 55

I was born [into the church], then I left it for many years. 10 years ago, I came back, but I could not take the hypocrisy and the lack of answers to the missing pieces. I struggled, but I did not abandon my commitment to know the truth. God is leading me to the simple understanding of his relevance and I am relearning what the church taught me as a youth… that he loves me, that he has led me to a knowledge of him such as I have never known. He is using Dr. Jennings to connect the dots that are now so apparent and hiding in plain sight!

Dean P., Arlington, TX, USA

 

Testimony 25

I just want to say thank you so much for your conversations via YouTube. I regularly tune in to your lectures, “Let’s Talk” sessions, and many others. Through these I’ve found greater depth and meaning to God’s word. Thanks for all that you do and please continue. I’m currently working in the middle of Silicon Valley at Stanford University. I feel like God really has me in the right place right now and I’m sensing that your teachings might be part of it.

B. F., Silicon Valley, CA, USA

 

Testimony 43

Two years ago I stumbled upon your book, “Could It Be This Simple,” and then found “The God-Shaped Brain” videos on YouTube, your bible study class, and the ‘Come And Reason’ mobile app. I shared your book with a friend and after nine months of showing love, patience, and kindness this person has been changed by the love of God, too. The same love that healed me, I now express to other women in tangible ways, such as to a Baptist woman with high anxiety and childhood trauma. She was extremely happy and relieved when I shared about the so-called “judgment of God” and burning in hell. She had no desire to serve a God that was so harsh. I have repeated the phrase dozens of times to her. “What we believe has power over us, but we have power over what we believe…”

This message that you are sharing has changed my life. I will continue to serve other women and bring this message of God’s healing love to their lives by sharing your books, YouTube videos, and The Remedy Bible app. Keep up the good work. Don’t be discouraged. God is doing a mighty work in and through this ministry!

Jill L., Midwest, USA

 

Testimony 3

My husband is a pastor and I listen to your lesson almost every week. Thank you for helping me in my study life and to help me love the “real” God more.

C. F., NC, USA

 

Testimony 1

Thank you! I love listening to the Come And Reason Ministries Bible study classes and am using some of your notes to get the lessons together that I will be teaching. You always have such good quotes and Bible texts and pull things together to make good sense.

T. C., IN, USA